Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Attorney-General, Senator Brandis. In the Attorney-General's statement to the Senate yesterday regarding the Bell Group matter, he indicated that the first personal involvement he recalls having in the matter was on 3 March 2016. When and how did the Attorney-General first become aware that the Western Australian government was seeking the Commonwealth's agreement not to contest the Western Australian legislation?

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Gallagher, I am not sure that properly characterises what my understanding of the matter was at any time, as a matter of fact. As I said in my statement yesterday, I became aware on 3 March when I received a visit from Mr Porter, who discussed the matter with me. I had a teleconference with Mr Mischin, the Attorney-General of Western Australia, in which Dr Nahan—

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

When did you first become aware? It is not about your first involvement. When did you first become aware?

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am sorry, Mr President. I am trying to answer the question. I keep being interrupted by Senator Wong.

Honourable senators interjecting —

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Interjections are disorderly.

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On 4 March I had a teleconference with Mr Mischin, in which Dr Nahan, the Treasurer, was also involved—as I said in my statement yesterday. That was my first involvement in the matter, although—

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

A point of order on relevance. We did not ask about his first personal involvement. We understand this Attorney-General's careful use of language. We asked when he first became aware, not when he was first personally involved, which is the language he used. The question was: when and how did the Attorney-General first become aware?

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The Attorney-General was asked when and how he first became aware. He commenced his answer by answering—as he indicated yesterday—3 March. The date was mentioned. He is now continuing with his answer and is indicating another date, 4 March, for subsequent material. The Attorney-General has been in order.

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I know that there had been some communication to my office earlier than 3 March, but my own involvement began on 3 March. Senator Gallagher, the relevant events, to which I understand you refer, occurred in April 2015, which was almost a year before I first became involved.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Gallagher, a supplementary question.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I again refer to the Attorney-General's statement in which he indicated his office had been dealing with the matter prior to his personal involvement on 3 March 2016—

Senator Brandis interjecting—

Yes, indeed, that is. Can the minister outline to the Senate: when did his office first become aware of the matter, and what was his office's involvement?

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It was before 3 March. I looked at some documents overnight, and I think it may have been in January 2016, but I will check that date. The point I make to you, Senator, is that the relevant discussion, which is said to constitute—at least as pointed to by Western Australian ministers—an arrangement or an agreement of some kind between the Commonwealth and the Western Australian government, took place in April 2015. I had no knowledge of or involvement in that whatsoever. I first became aware of it the following year.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Gallagher, a final supplementary question.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I again refer to the Attorney-General's statement to the Senate, in which he claimed not to have been personally involved in the matter until 3 March. How can he maintain he was not personally involved when counsel appearing on his behalf in the High Court appeared on 8 February?

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That is not correct. The counsel who appeared in the matter in the High Court on behalf of the only relevant Commonwealth party, Mr Gleeson, was, as I understand the matter, at that time acting on the instructions of the Australian Taxation Office—not on my instructions. As I was at pains to point out yesterday, at that time and subsequently I was not involved in giving instructions to Mr Gleeson on behalf of the Australian Taxation Office. The Australian Taxation Office is an independent statutory authority; when it retains counsel, counsel appears on behalf of it, not on behalf of the Attorney-General.