Chris Ketter (Queensland, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Treasurer, Senator Cormann. Last night Andrew Bolt asked the minister six times what peak gross debt is projected to be under the federal government, and six times the minister refused to answer. I ask the minister: what nominal figure is gross debt projected to reach in 2027-28?

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am really pleased that Senator Ketter watches my interviews with Mr Bolt. I think we all know that Mr Bolt does what Senator Ketter does—that is, ask me a question where he already knows the answer. Senator Ketter knows very well that in Budget Paper No. 1, at page 7-8, all those numbers are spelled out. He also would be aware that at the back of the budget papers, in tables 11-14 and 11-15, it is all spelled out—

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting—

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

They are getting themselves very excited! The very important point that I made in the interview yesterday is that the number that Senator Katter knows very well is much lower than it would have been if Labor had stayed in government. The projection is there for all to see—that, at the end of the forward estimates, gross debt is projected to be $606 billion—

Honourable senators interjecting—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

A point of order, Senator Dastyari?

Sam Dastyari (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On a point of order, Mr President: I could not hear the number over all the interjections.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Could I remind all senators to listen to the minister's answer in silence.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you very much, Mr President. You see, the Labor Party are into these games where they ask questions where they already know the answer. It is all very juvenile. I would point out again to the chamber that the Australian Office of Financial Management publishes an issuance strategy for the budget year only, and that any projections beyond the budget year are based on a set of technical assumptions and will vary with changes in these assumptions and budget estimates and projections. So, based on these technical assumptions—and this is published in the budget papers, at page 7-8 of Budget Paper No. 1—by the end of the forward estimates period, gross debt is expected to reach $606 billion.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Ketter, a supplementary question.

Chris Ketter (Queensland, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank the minister for that answer. Yesterday and today, when asked, Treasurer Morrison could not identify what figure gross debt is projected to reach. Does the Treasurer not know? Or was he, like Minister Cormann, just too ashamed to admit that gross debt is projected to reach $725 billion under the Turnbull government?

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The point I would make again is that there are very many serious conversations that we need to have in Australia about our future economic and fiscal challenges and opportunities. There are serious conversations to be had on how we can ensure that people across Australia and families across Australia can have the best possible opportunities to get ahead. And all we are getting from the Labor Party is juvenile student politicking.

I actually answered the question. This is the game the Labor Party are playing: they are asking me a question where I know the answer, they know I know the answer, they know the answer; everybody knows—

Honourable Senators:

Honourable senators interjecting—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator Cameron, on a point of order.

Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On relevance: the question went to the issue of the shame that the Treasurer has in not being able to actually state that the projected debt is going to be $725 billion under the Turnbull government. That was the question; Senator Cormann has not gone near it.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Cameron. I will remind the minister of the question.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Mr President. What I was about to say is that the Turnbull government is proud—proud—of the fact that we have been able to reduce expenditure to the tune of $250 billion over the current and medium term. That is $250 billion that Labor would have had to borrow that we do not have to borrow, that will ensure that debt is lower than it would have been under Labor, which will help us to pay off debt once we are back in surplus— (Time expired)

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Ketter, a final supplementary question.

Chris Ketter (Queensland, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Given that growth debt is projected to reach $725 billion, isn't former Treasurer Costello correct when he says that, under Prime Minister Turnbull, 'No-one now is talking about paying back debt'?

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What former Treasurer Peter Costello has also said in the past, what we have said in the past—he is a giant of Australian politics, of course—is that the debt number that is actually the most relevant is government net debt. And government net debt, both in dollar terms and as a share of GDP, is projected to peak in 2018-19 at $375.1 billion and at 19.8 per cent, and then it is projected to reduce, reduce, reduce, reduce to the point where, by 2027-28, it is projected to come down to 8½ per cent of the share of GDP—8½ per cent of the share of GDP. The Labor Party are playing politics, but they cannot go past the fact that, if Labor were still in government, on the policy settings that they left behind after the most shameful period in government in the history of the Commonwealth, debt would be much worse today than what it is. We have made significant progress in reducing the level of debt, compared to what it would have been under Labor.

Jonathon Duniam (Tasmania, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to Senator Ryan, Minister representing the Minister for Social Services. Will the minister update the Senate on the government's fully funded disability package and how it will improve the lives of the people with a disability?

Scott Ryan (Victoria, Liberal Party, Special Minister of State) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Duniam for his question and interest in these matters. This budget gives certainty to all people in Australia living with a disability, to their families and to their carers that their needs will be met as the NDIS moves towards full scheme in 2020. The budget provides $33 million over three years for a local care workforce package to help disability providers deliver the work that is needed to meet demand from people entering the NDIS, as well as older Australians requiring aged-care services. A new independent national body, the NDIS Quality and Safeguards Commission, will be established to oversee NDIS service standards and enforce participants' rights, at a cost of $209 million over four years.

Significant reforms to disability employment services will also better connect jobseekers who have a disability with a job that is right for them. Significant reforms include allowing jobseekers to choose and change their DES provider, with funding following them to the provider rather than locking them into someone they are dissatisfied with; putting the responsibility on DES providers to attract jobseekers to them, rather than being guaranteed a certain number of jobseekers; and linking funding of DES providers to outcomes—jobs for people with a disability. This includes higher levels of funding for placing people with greater barriers to employment in a job or for securing employment in a more challenging labour market.

Of course, this budget includes a proposal to increase the Medicare levy by 0.5 per cent from 1 July 2019 as the system ramps up to once and for all ensure that Labor's funding gap for the National Disability Insurance Scheme is addressed and these services—and the financing to provide these services—are sustainable in future decades.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Duniam, a supplementary question.

Jonathon Duniam (Tasmania, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank the minister for that very concise answer. Can the minister explain how the government's reforms to disability services will ensure the safety and improve the employment outcomes of NDIS participants?

Scott Ryan (Victoria, Liberal Party, Special Minister of State) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I mentioned, the budget includes $209 million over four years to establish this new national quality and safeguards commission to oversee the delivery of safe services for all participants in the NDIS. This will help NDIS participants exercise their choice and control over services, and support the services they access. It will ensure proper safeguards for participants and be responsible for the quality of services delivered by their staff.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Duniam, a final supplementary question.

Jonathon Duniam (Tasmania, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I wonder: can the minister tell us if he is aware of any alternative approaches to disability support funding?

Scott Ryan (Victoria, Liberal Party, Special Minister of State) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am, Senator Duniam—through you, Mr President. I think many, many Australians are also aware, as they have been for many, many years, because, despite promises, slogans and bumper stickers, the previous Labor government failed to fully fund the NDIS, leaving a substantial annual funding gap of almost $4 billion from 2019-20.

The claim that Labor makes that it fully funded it has no credibility when Labor's actual budget papers did not link any savings to the NDIS. That proposition only appeared in a little glossy document in 2013-14. That glossy document spoke about 'other long-term savings' that were not identified in any budget paper. When asked in Senate estimates whether these measures could be listed in detail, Treasury's response was: 'The short answer is no.' And, Mr President, may I say we can always go back to an interview on 2 May 2013 where, when referring to the proposal by Labor to increase the Medicare levy, the now Leader of the Opposition, Mr Shorten, said, 'I'm sure we will get bipartisanship.' (Time expired)