Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister Assisting the Leader for Science) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question without notice is to the Minister for Industry, Innovation and Science, Senator Sinodinos. Can the minister confirm that the assumptions about demand built into the modelling for the Finkel review assume that, out to 2050, population growth in Australia will be 50 per cent while demand for electricity will increase by only 15 per cent? Is this because the modelling is based on the assumption that, under the Turnbull government, heavy industry, particularly aluminium, steel and cement, would no longer be part of the Australian economy by 2050?

Arthur Sinodinos (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Industry, Innovation and Science) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Not as far as I am aware.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Carr, a supplementary question.

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister Assisting the Leader for Science) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

In his presentation to the government party room, Minister Frydenberg said policy uncertainty is holding back new investment. BlueScope Steel Chief Executive Paul O'Malley recently reiterated that the nation could not afford policy failure and years more uncertainty. Given the ongoing division in the government, why should major manufacturers have any confidence that the Turnbull government will end that uncertainty?

Arthur Sinodinos (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Industry, Innovation and Science) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Both Mr O'Malley and Mr Frydenberg are right: we do need to get more certainty into our energy and environmental policies. But we will not get that certainty unless we as a parliament are prepared to be pragmatic about what needs to be done. This is very important. There are coal fired generators out there who are uncertain about the future. They do not know whether to refurbish or whether they should invest in new stations. We have a situation where the RET has done its job. But the fact of the matter is that we need to create greater certainty by having an appropriate signal to give people certainty that investment over 20, 30 and 40 years will be appropriate in this sector. But it has to meet three requirements: it has to have security, it has to be affordable and it has to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions. This is a difficult 'trilemma', as some people have called it. The government, through the work it is doing— (Time expired)

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Carr, a final supplementary question.

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister Assisting the Leader for Science) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, you have indicated that you do not believe that the assumptions in the modelling are predicated on the basis of the removal of heavy industry. On what basis are the assumptions made? Senator Abetz has accused the Chief Scientist of using creative modelling to promote the clean energy target. Is he correct?

Arthur Sinodinos (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Industry, Innovation and Science) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I will get back to the honourable member with more information. But can I say that I have a lot of faith in Dr Finkel. I worked with him very closely as Chief Scientist. He does a good job. He is not afraid to be frank and fearless in his advice. I will leave it at that.

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Resources and Northern Australia, Senator Canavan. I ask the minister if he could advise the Senate of the importance of baseload power for maintaining affordable and reliable energy.

Matthew Canavan (Queensland, Liberal National Party, Minister for Resources and Northern Australia) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That is a great segue from the question we just heard, where we had Senator Carr wanting to defend the industrialisation of Australia and wanting to defend jobs in Australia but, at the same time, being part of a party who, in their own climate action policy last year at the election, said they wanted to kickstart the closure of coal-fired power stations. And didn't the Labor Party get their wish!

In the last year we have seen two major coal-fired power stations close, cheered along by the Labor Party. 'How fast can we make these go?' was their view. 'Let's close them sooner, faster, more often.' Both of them have closed, and we have seen, in South Australia, a massive cost to the economy, with a statewide blackout, where a South Australian Labor government refused the price of $25 million to keep Northern Power Station going. Instead, it is now spending more than $500 million in response to their statewide blackout, including buying diesel generators to use over the summer to keep the lights on. It is absolutely absurd!

Likewise with the closure of Hazelwood. We have seen it put pressure on prices—that was the advice of the Australian Energy Market Operator—but we have seen that closure cheered on by the Victorian Labor government as well. They wanted that to close, and they got their wish as well. On this side, we are not embarrassed to stand behind the need for baseload, reliable power in our system. That does rely on using the natural resources that we have been given in this country, including coal and gas—resources that have powered this country for decades, for hundreds of years, and provided thousands of jobs to hardworking Australians. These are industries that we do want to support and keep going. That is why we are not shy about backing the use of our natural resources in this country to create wealth and keep power prices down for the users of power in households across Australia.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Minister. Senator Macdonald, a supplementary question.

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank the minister for that answer. In asking my supplementary, can I note in passing that the Labor mayor of Townsville certainly supports baseload power stations in the north of Australia. But I ask the minister: who else is supporting investment in clean coal power stations in Australia?

Matthew Canavan (Queensland, Liberal National Party, Minister for Resources and Northern Australia) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I do note, like the senator, mayor Jenny Hill's support for the coalition on this matter; she thinks we should support baseload power in North Queensland. We know, as I was saying, the Labor Party wanted to kickstart the closure of coal-fired power. Earlier last year Mark Butler, the energy spokesperson for the Labor Party, said:

Labor will introduce a framework to kickstart the closure of the older, heaviest polluting generators consistent with the principles set out in our policy documents.

That is their position, but we know that Anthony Albanese has a different view. Mr Albanese, the member for Grayndler, supports coal-fired power. He says on his website that he has had more than 70 references to supporting coal-fired power. That is another difference that is emerging there.

We have also had people like the state Labor member for Mirani, Mr Pearce, say that he supports a coal-fired power station. We have had Jo-Ann Miller, the Labor member for Ipswich, supporting a coal-fired power station. But we still have the federal Labor Party here wanting to kickstart the closure of reliable power in our country. (Time expired)

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Macdonald, a final supplementary question.

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Again I thank the minister for that very informative answer. He would probably be aware that the Queensland alternative Premier is talking about a coal-fired power station in the north. But I ask the minister: is he aware of any alternative energy policies?

Matthew Canavan (Queensland, Liberal National Party, Minister for Resources and Northern Australia) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As the senator was saying, the Liberal National Party of Queensland also support a coal-fired power station being built. They are not shy about supporting coal-fired power either. I forgot to mention our favourite supporter of coal-fired power in this place, and that is Mr Bob Brown. He is also a big supporter of coal-fired power. There is an article here from The Mercury where coal-fired power is the 'best option' according to Mr Bob Brown. He is a big supporter of coal-fired power. But now what we have here is a religious objection to the use of coal from the Greens and the Labor Party teaming up, whereas what we are saying is that we should do what works. Let us do what works. Let us focus on what works for people so that we can keep them in a job, so we can keep their power bills down. We know that there are more than 300 plants around Asia that are being built or are under construction for coal-fired power, and that can bring emissions down as well as guarantee jobs.