Jacinta Collins (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Cabinet Secretary) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Brandis. I refer to the Turnbull government's briefing note on its latest energy policy that is reported as stating:

Some electricity retailers will not be able to meet the required emissions profile, while others will overachieve. Therefore a secondary exchange will occur between retailers to balance their portfolios.

Given electricity retailers will trade to meet required emissions targets, can the minister confirm the policy effectively imposes a price on carbon?

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Well, I can tell you, Senator Collins, that, as usual, you are completely wrong. As usual: you are entirely wrong. I can confirm that the policy doesn't effectively impose a price on carbon.

But, Senator Collins, you don't need to take my word for that; you can take the word of John Pierce, the Chair of the Australian Energy Market Commission and a member of the Energy Security Board—who are the authors of the National Energy Guarantee—who said as recently as this morning:

I think it would be very hard to actually identify and say 'this is a carbon price' - there isn't one.' …

So that, Senator Collins, is the view of Mr John Pierce, the chairman of the national energy board.

You asked, 'Is this effectively a carbon price?' No, it's not, Senator Collins. And Mr John Pierce, the Chair of the Australian Energy Market Commission, has also said as recently as this morning that this is not a carbon price, in fact or in effect. So, Senator Collins, as I said, not for the first time but for the umpteenth time you are entirely wrong.

What we do understand, Senator Collins, is that there is one side of this chamber which has an energy policy, and that is the government side because the opposition has no energy policy—no energy policy. But overnight and this morning we have begun to see a little bit of backsliding on behalf of Mr Shorten of the Australian Labor Party; a bit of crab-walking towards maybe, just maybe, adopting the government's National Energy Guarantee. So, after 48 hours of vigorous criticism of the National Energy Guarantee, all of a sudden the Labor Party seems to be about to execute one of their U-turns. (Time expired)

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Collins, a supplementary question.

Jacinta Collins (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Cabinet Secretary) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Mr President. I suppose I should appreciate that at least Senator Brandis can pronounce my name.

Honourable Senators:

Honourable senators interjecting—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Your question, Senator Collins.

Jacinta Collins (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Cabinet Secretary) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

When asked whether the Turnbull government's latest energy policy was a carbon price, Chief Executive of the Australian Energy Council, Matthew Warren, said, 'Of course.' That is quite contrary to the opinion you just opined, Senator Brandis. Is Mr Warren correct?

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Well, Senator Collins, I haven't seen what Mr Warren said and, as a matter of fact, Senator Collins, I don't know Mr Warren. I don't know Mr Warren, but I do know Mr John Pierce, the chairman of the Australian Energy Market Commission, who has said the opposite. And it's on the basis of Mr Pierce's expertise and on the basis of the expertise of the other members of the Energy Security Board that the government has adopted the National Energy Guarantee. But as I was saying, Senator Collins, it does appear we're getting the first baby steps towards the Labor Party doing a U-turn on this policy and eventually—slowly—adopting the government's policy.

Now, Senator Collins, I would recommend this course to you, because if you were to adopt the government's policy, at least, for the first time in more than a decade, you'd have a policy, which you don't have at the moment. (Time expired)

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Collins, a final supplementary question.

Jacinta Collins (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Cabinet Secretary) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I have a further supplementary question where I can demonstrate that the minister has been cherrypicking in the statements he's been using. The Executive Director of RepuTex, Hugh Grossman, says in relation to the secondary exchange, 'The effective carbon price for the market would be the price of those Australian carbon credit units.' What will the price of carbon be under the Turnbull government's latest energy policy?

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Collins, I must confess I don't know Mr Grossman either. I don't know if you know Mr Grossman—I suspect you don't—but I will rely upon the advice of Mr Pierce, Dr Kerry Schott, Audrey Zibelman and the other members of the Energy Security Board, on the basis of whose advice the government has adopted the National Energy Guarantee.

As I was saying a moment ago, it is fascinating to watch the Labor Party slowly, gradually trying to crab walk away from the position it took on Tuesday afternoon to prepare for it to adopt the government's policy. As you know, as a result of the advice of the Energy Security Board, the government has a policy that will see electricity prices to households fall, whereas your position at the moment of trying to compete with the Greens for the inner city Left market means your only posture is to increase the price of electricity. So come on board with us, Senator Collins— (Time expired)