Peter Whish-Wilson (Tasmania, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Defence, also representing the Minister for Trade, Senator Payne. My question is about your government's plan to provide a six-fold increase of weapons and defence technology sales from Australia by lending almost $4 billion of public money to the defence industry. Tim Costello, the chief advocate for World Vision Australia, said, Minister:

This is a government that has cut humanitarian aid, which saves lives, to the lowest level in our history, and it is now seriously discussing the merits of becoming a major weapons manufacturer and exporter …

The government says this is an export and investment opportunity—but we would be exporting death and profiting from bloodshed.

Minister, do you agree with Mr Costello? And, if not, why not? Is he right or is he wrong?

Marise Payne (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I respectfully disagree with Mr Costello on this matter, although we have worked together in the past on a number of issues. Let me be very clear about what is in the Defence Export Strategy. It builds on the government's very strong defence industry policies by setting out a comprehensive system to plan, to guide and to measure defence export outcomes. What we are doing is bringing together all the levers that are available to government and to industry to provide end-to-end support for defence exports, from building export readiness to identifying export opportunities, and, ultimately, to realise defence export outcomes. We are also establishing, through the strategy, the Australian Defence Export Office within the Department of Defence, which will provide a focal point for defence exports. The strategy is also creating a Defence Export Advocate, who will support the office by providing ongoing, high-level advocacy for defence exports. They have not yet been appointed but they will be a senior figure with strong knowledge of the Australian defence industry.

So what we have committed to—and I emphasise that this is all structured within the defence trade control system, which already applies strongly to what we do when we observe our obligations under that system—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order, Senator Payne. Senator Whish-Wilson on a point of order?

Peter Whish-Wilson (Tasmania, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

A point of order about relevance, President: I have waited till over halfway through the minister's response—

Marise Payne (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You asked me if I agreed with Tim Costello. I said no.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Can I hear the point of order from Senator Whish-Wilson?

Peter Whish-Wilson (Tasmania, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I asked him: if not, why not? How is this not profiting from bloodshed and exporting death? You haven't answered that, Minister.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Whish-Wilson, your question was quite lengthy and wide-ranging. The minister is relevant to the terms of the question you asked.

Marise Payne (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The senator asked me if I agreed with Mr Costello and I said, respectfully, no, I do not. What we are engaged in is, as I said, managed within the defence trade control system. Our export control provisions reflect our international obligations as a member of global non-proliferation regimes and as a signatory to the Arms Trade Treaty, and are consistent with like-minded countries. We assess all of our exports against five criteria: international obligations, human rights, regional security, national security and foreign policy. One of the challenges for defence industry in the past has been a lack of consistency— (Time expired)

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Whish-Wilson, a supplementary question?

Peter Whish-Wilson (Tasmania, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, you are making nearly $4 billion available to an already very powerful military-industrial complex. Where did this policy come from? Who's been in your ear? How many weapons companies have you talked to? And how many of them have been donors to the Liberal Party?

Marise Payne (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I would refer the senator to the 2016 Defence Industry Policy Statement, which was launched by the government in February 2016—so he has had almost two years to turn his mind to that—which set out our plans in relation to development of defence industry in this country, recognising it is a fundamental input to capability. The export strategy developed by the Department of Defence, the Minister for Defence Industry and me is a significant next step in that process. What the Efic facility does, which the senator has referred to, is to take up Efic's significant experience in complex, large-scale project financing and, as a national interest account facility, while Efic will do the due diligence, the loan structuring and the administration, all final loan decisions will be subject to cabinet approval. And I reiterate: they will all be considered under Australia's rigorous defence export control provisions.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Whish-Wilson, a final supplementary question?

Peter Whish-Wilson (Tasmania, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'm sure you'd like to ask one about this, too, Senator Singh. Minister Pyne, when he visited Saudi Arabia to talk about weapons sales recently, met with Saudi prince Mutaib bin Abdullah, who, not long after that meeting, was jailed for corruption. We also know there are serious allegations against Saudi Arabia for giving weapons to Islamic State and committing war crimes in Yemen. How will you make sure that Australian weapons aren't used in atrocities or war crimes or for corrupt purposes? (Time expired)

Marise Payne (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I have already made reference to our quite stringent defence export control provisions, but I can refer to those again if the senator wishes. The assessment of the application considers the goods or the technology, the way it will be used and who it will be used by—the end user. It also includes looking at the risk of it being diverted to another end user. All exports will continue to be assessed under Australia's export control provisions.

I would note for the record that in 2015 the Joint Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade in a bipartisan report, as I understand it, recommended key elements of the Defence industry policy statement and of the export policy. These are matters which have previously been considered by the parliament. Our primary focus is, of course, on our key relationships with the United States, the United Kingdom, New Zealand and like-minded countries such as Canada, and then, of course, into our region. The observations that Senator Whish-Wilson makes in relation to matters concerning Saudi Arabia are not the focus at this stage. (Time expired)

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask that further questions be placed on the Notice Paper.