Patrick Dodson (WA, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Indigenous Affairs and Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders (Senate)) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I move:

That the Senate take note of the answers given by the Minister for Indigenous Affairs (Senator Scullion) to questions without notice asked by Senators Dodson and McCarthy today relating to funding for remote housing services.

It's blindingly obvious to any observer that the Closing the Gap targets will never be achieved while remote housing services are not fixed. There's been a decade of investment from Commonwealth, state and territory governments on this issue. A decade of collaboration and cooperation on remote housing communities has been bearing fruit. These communities urgently need to have their housing needs addressed in order to have them achieve any of the Closing the Gap targets. This is one of the most critical factors we have to address in closing the gap.

The World Health Organization has made it plain that stable housing is a necessary precondition to a stable health system. The World Health Organization argues that:

There is a clear need and opportunity for governments and others to promote health in the course of making investments in housing. International guidance on healthy housing—targeting construction experts, architects and engineers as well as housing agencies and local authorities—would enable action that is scientifically-based, and protects and advances public health.

This is a global situation, and the Australian situation falls short in our remote communities. Without safe and stable housing, infant disease and poor health get worse, kids cannot study for school, domestic and family violence rise, homelessness increases and, in fact, gender equality deteriorates. We cannot, as a Commonwealth, risk walking away from this national partnership. The minister needs to be held to account on this issue on this particular day of closing the gap.

There have been no hard commitments made to the Northern Territory, Western Australia or Queensland in what the minister has reported. What he has indicated is more talk and obfuscation about state and territory government needs and the contributions in this field. The minister's answer clearly indicates that his representative in the House was not provided with accurate information at the time he rose to answer the question in the House. We met last week with representatives of the Western Australian government, the South Australian government and the Queensland government. I also met with the mayors of the Queensland shire councils. I met today with the minister of the Northern Territory government. The story coming from the state and territory governments has been consistent: not one of these states has received a letter from the minister in relation to the need to negotiate new bilateral funding agreements. Before they came to Canberra last week, not one of these jurisdictions had been approached by the minister or his office to commence negotiations.

Minister, before last week, and when the minister stood up to represent you in the House, not one of those jurisdictions had been advised that the National Partnership Agreement on Remote Indigenous Housing would be coming to a stop in June this year. In fact, you are yet to publically and formally indicate that the national partnership is being withdrawn and how, through this fog of confusion, you are not going to walk away from remote housing. These are not intergovernmental negotiation processes. They are centralised, top-down decisions being pushed out to your partners in the states and territories. These processes lack transparency and courtesy and fall short of the relationship required for governments of all persuasions to bridge the Closing the Gap targets.

Minister, you referred to the Remote housing reviewand indicated you gave me an advanced copy of this report, and I thank you for that. The key findings of the Remote housing revieware clear: high levels of overcrowding and poor housing conditions negatively impact on outcomes in health, education, employment and safety. There's particularly clear evidence of the strong relationship between health outcomes and the installation and proactive maintenance of hardware in houses that will both stand up to the conditions and facilitate key healthy-living behaviours. Overcrowding prejudices the chance of the head tenant or the head family person to maintain a home routine and a calm, clean, healthy and safe environment for family members. The report indicates good progress has been made against the strategy objectives, and that's the confusing and confounding matter of the minister's response. (Time expired)

Slade Brockman (WA, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I too rise to speak on answers to questions from Senator Scullion on Indigenous housing. I will refer to the contribution of Senator Dodson. He described a 'fog of confusion'. Well, there certainly isn't a fog of confusion from the government's point of view. Social housing in remote communities, just like any other community, is clearly a matter for state and territory governments.

The Commonwealth remains in negotiations with Queensland, West Australia, South Australia and Northern Territory governments about future funding arrangements beyond the one-off 10-year remote housing agreement that's due to expire in June. State Labor housing ministers from Western Australia, SA and Queensland have been out spreading mistruths on remote housing. The Commonwealth has not made or announced any decision regarding future funding arrangements for remote housing. Negotiations with the states remain ongoing. Unlike the Northern Territory, other state governments have not put any money on the table for Indigenous housing as part of these negotiations.

I will just refer to the minister's answer, which was very clear, that he has significant concerns that the Commonwealth's involvement in this space caused the states to withdraw—caused the states to stop doing their job. And that is what we have to address in any arrangements going forward. We have to make sure that Commonwealth government funding isn't merely giving the states an excuse to walk away from their own responsibilities in this very important area. If the state Labor governments were fair dinkum about this, they would have put forward a commitment, but they haven't.

It's important to note, as I've said, that public housing remains a state and territory responsibility, notwithstanding the fact that the Commonwealth invested more than $6 billion in housing last year, including over $1.4 billion in Queensland, $620 million in my home state of Western Australia and $440 million in South Australia. These funds are allocated on the basis of all citizens in their states, but state governments have decided that they will not spend a single cent in remote or Indigenous communities. These state Labor governments should not be so city-centric. They should invest some of this money into remote and Indigenous communities.

In the past 10 years, in fact, the Commonwealth has invested $5.4 billion across the states and the Northern Territory to support jurisdictions in managing their responsibilities for remote housing. It's time for those jurisdictions to step up, to do their fair share and fund public housing for their residents in remote communities in the same way as they do for non-remote communities.

But this isn't just about the money; it's about how we do business. It's making sure that Indigenous people and Indigenous communities have a greater role in delivering the work, from deciding how the investment is rolled out to actually working on the ground to build the houses. But, again, this is an area of policy which is principally the responsibility of the state and territory governments. They need to step up. They can't keep sitting on their hands, doing nothing in this space, expecting the federal government to take over their responsibilities. They need to step up and take a key role in what is a very, very important issue.

I also just note briefly in the time remaining to me that today the Closing the gap report was tabled, and obviously this is an area of keen interest to many people in this place. We've seen Closing the gap now since 2008, and we've seen some positives. Obviously, many of us would have liked to have seen a lot more positives over those 10 years. It does tend to be a two steps forward, one step back environment. But there have been some encouraging developments in this space. We've seen improvements in long-term health outcomes, and the target to halve child mortality is back on track. Educational outcomes are improving, and targets for early childhood and year 12 attainment are, again, both back on track.

Obviously, turning around the current situation for Indigenous communities is a long-term project, and everyone in this place knows that. What works is not always clear. Some things that work in one community might not work in another. So we have to keep driving towards these targets and trying to do positive things for all Australians.

Malarndirri McCarthy (NT, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There is a fog of confusion around the way that the Commonwealth is handling negotiations on housing with the state and territory governments. I'll tell you why. In the Northern Territory, Minister Scullion stood up at a community in Arnhem Land and commended the Northern Territory government for putting forward $1.1 billion in terms of its housing, and it agreed to continue the partnership of $1.1 billion over 10 years. So there was confusion here when the Prime Minister said on Friday that that's not the case. I call on the minister and the Prime Minister to be much clearer in the deliberations and negotiations that they are having, because they're sending very confusing signals.

Today we heard all the words about improving outcomes for first nations people, about closing the gap and about aspirations to improve our lives and the lives of our children and our families. I don't doubt the Prime Minister's intentions when he wants to see more and do more to see real improvements. You can't get much more real and solid than bricks and mortar—housing. Good-quality housing underpins all the Closing the Gap targets in health, education and employment as well as community safety. Good housing is the key to strengthening communities—particularly remote communities—and improving lives. This government knows this—in fact, it says this in its own Closing the gap report—yet has refused to clarify if it has any real commitment to improving the enormous need for remote housing.

The Minister for Indigenous Affairs, Senator Scullion, refused to clarify what, if any, plans he has to extend or replace the 10-year $5.4 billion National Partnership on Remote Housing, which expires in June 2018. Senator Scullion was given every opportunity today to explain his positive plans for improving the dire, desperate need for remote Indigenous housing, and he couldn't do it. Senator Scullion could not say how many new houses his government would commit to building. He could not say how many families would benefit from new or improved housing. He could not say how the federal government plans to meet the additional 5,500 homes estimated by his own review to be required by 2028 to reduce levels of overcrowding in remote areas. Despite the 10-year plan expiring in four months and the budget being handed down in three months, the minister cannot give any indication of how his government is going to tackle the enormous need for housing in remote areas. This is what failure sounds like.

But it's not Senator Scullion who lives with this failure. It's the family in an Alice Springs town camp sharing one bathroom with 20 other people because extended family members have no housing. It's an elderly woman sleeping outside in the front yard in 45-degree heat because her home doesn't have air conditioning. It's the elderly disabled man living on an outstation whose toilet hasn't worked for weeks being given a rubber plunger and told to fix it himself. Senator Scullion mentioned housing refurbishments and seemed to think they were not needed and were a waste of money. The remote housing review said the evidence is clear that houses deteriorate quickly without ongoing maintenance and repairs. Having invested $5.4 billion into the program, you would think that Senator Scullion would think it a priority for the government to protect its investment and increase the longevity of houses by maintaining the housing already delivered. Keeping housing maintained and functional plays a huge role in overcoming housing shortages and overcrowding.

To put on record another finding from the review:

Under the Community Housing and Infrastructure Program (CHIP) the Fixing Houses for Better Health surveys found that only nine per cent of household faults are caused by tenants. The misconception that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander families cause the majority of damage and deterioration to remote Indigenous housing needs to be corrected. A focus on tenant education is important, but so too is delivering good quality and appropriate housing that meets building standards.

But housing isn't just about bricks and mortar. It's also about jobs and economies, especially in remote areas. So come on, Minister. Come on, Prime Minister. Get on with the job and support our housing. (Time expired)

John Williams (NSW, National Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

In all of the almost 10 years I've been in this place I have known Senator Scullion. He's a National Party senator, and I can tell you his commitment to our First Australians is huge. It is his passion. He does his best to work for them. It's on his mind all the time. Senator Brockman made the point that social housing in remote communities, just like in any other community, is the responsibility of state and territory governments. That is a fact. So for this to work the states and territories must come on board. Of course, the taxpayers and the federal government will put a lot of money into it. The Commonwealth remains in negotiations with the Queensland, Western Australian, South Australian and Northern Territory governments about future funding arrangements beyond the one-off 10-year remote housing agreement that is due to expire in June this year. We are just a few months out from the expiration of that 10-year agreement and negotiations are underway.

State Labor housing ministers from Western Australia, South Australia and Queensland have been out spreading mistruths on remote housing. That shouldn't surprise anyone. The Commonwealth has not made or announced any decision regarding future funding arrangements for remote housing. In fact, negotiations with all of these states remain ongoing. Unlike the Northern Territory, the other state governments have not put any money on the table for Indigenous housing as part of these negotiations—that's a very important point to note—even though social housing in remote communities is a direct responsibility of the states and territories. If the state Labor governments of Queensland, South Australia and Western Australia were fair dinkum about remote housing in their states, they would have put forward a commitment by now, but they haven't.

It is important to note that public housing remains a state and territory government responsibility. Notwithstanding this, the Commonwealth invested more than $6 billion in housing last year, including over $1.4 billion in Queensland, over $620 million in Western Australia and over $440 million in South Australia. These funds are allocated on the basis of all citizens in their states, but these state governments have decided they will not spend a single cent in remote Indigenous communities. Amazing! These state Labor governments should not be so city-centric and should invest some of this money in remote and Indigenous communities. But, typical Labor, they look at the cities only and forget what is out in the regional areas.

In the past 10 years, the Commonwealth has invested $5.4 billion across the states and Northern Territory to support jurisdictions in managing their responsibilities for remote housing. It is timely for the jurisdictions to do their fair share and fund public housing services for their residents in remote communities, in the same way they do for those in non-remote locations. But it's not just about the money. It's about how we do business, making sure that Indigenous people have a greater role in delivering the work, from deciding how the investment is rolled out to actually working on the ground and building the houses. We'll not get on top of this if we keep doing business as usual.

The Commonwealth government provided $5.4 billion over the 10 years to 2018 through the National Partnership Agreement on Remote Indigenous Housing. Come on, states and territories, you need to lift your game—although the Northern Territory seems to be on the money here. We have to do these things to close the gap. I remember many years ago going out to the Flinders Ranges and carting sheep and cattle from the stations. The Indigenous workers there were great stockmen, great workers and great blokes. They were tremendous toilers and they were very proud of the work they did. We need to keep the jobs out in the rural areas, especially in the remote and regional areas, because the best thing you can give these people is a job. I'm very pleased to see the growth in Indigenous businesses in Inverell, where I live, such as the factory that makes pet food. They have now sold it, but they employ many local Aboriginal people there. They are very proud to work there and very proud to do their job, and they do a great job. This is the big thing: build the pride, get them to work and let them achieve themselves. We can provide the housing and help them on the way, but the jobs are the big thing in the end. (Time expired)

Deborah O'Neill (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Innovation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You would think that, of all days, this is the day that the Liberal Party would get this right. Those sitting here in the chamber today represent the Australian population. I want you to remember this day and participate in holding every government to account, on this day, the day of Closing the Gap, for the continuing egregious way life conditions of our Aboriginal brothers and sisters. What you've just heard in the answers that were given today in response to questions by the Indigenous leadership here from the Labor Party—Senator Dodson and Senator McCarthy—was a whole lot of hot gobbledygook and nonsense about state and federal responsibilities. Make no mistake: this government is running from every single financial responsibility it can run from and blaming the states for a failure of delivery of services, and that's what we saw again here today.

Over in the other chamber, I went to listen to a very, very mediocre speech from the Prime Minister on Closing the Gap—but with no proposal to actually close the gap—and a much more inspired response from the Leader of the Opposition, who said this:

… for 10 years and four prime ministers this has been a day of words. Sometimes we've heard good speeches in defence of not so good results … We can close the gap … And it'll be First Australians … who will show us how.

The First Australians will show us how. They are asking questions. While this government quibbles over whether it'll have a conversation with South Australia or Western Australia, they are standing here and telling us that there's a family in Alice Springs—and it's not just one family; this is repeated around the country—where one group of 20 people are sharing a bathroom. I'm sure that most of those sitting in the gallery, and the people who might be listening to this debate, would not be in a situation where there are 20 people sharing one bathroom.

Senator Dodson opened his remarks by quoting the World Health Organization and saying how important housing is, as the fundamental place in which people can live, can live healthily and can support their children so they can participate in education. These are basic things that our country—our wealthy, safe and free country—can make a commitment to delivering. What did we see today in question time? This quibbling, this sharing of blame and this abrogation of responsibility from a minister who has absolutely failed to deliver.

Safe, appropriate housing is what Senator Dodson has asked for. Safe, appropriate housing has been delivered by, as Senator McCarthy indicated, 640 jobs that've been generated through this scheme that's about to come to an end on 30 June this year. Indigenous businesses are benefiting from this scheme. There are 850 Indigenous apprentices and trainees who have benefited from the scheme. But is the fact that it's working, and the fact that it's having a positive impact, enough to keep this government on track? Absolutely not. They're ready to walk away.

What we heard today was a minister who didn't quite clearly say it but basically said, 'Well, the national partnership's dead; we're going to bipartisan arrangements now with the states.' This is important. We need national leadership, not little deals done on the side out of a framework of attacking the actual challenges that lie before us in addressing the need for remote Indigenous housing.

Today over in the other place, the Leader of the Opposition said of the national apology:

… 10 years on, the apology, in so many ways, speaks for itself … when, at long last, the government finally asked forgiveness … somehow, the stolen generation found it in their hearts to grant forgiveness in the spirit of healing.

Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, first nations people across this country, took a deep breath 10 years ago and said, 'We might trust our governments again.' Targets were set and, in addition to failing on this housing target, we've got a government that is ready to start changing the targets.

What we saw today in discussion about housing is a smaller view of this large failure that we're seeing from Malcolm Turnbull's government of walking away from the practical need to respond to real and pressing issues: housing, health, education and access to services. These are the things that continue to plague our first nations. Today, on the day of Closing the Gap, remember that you're in this place. Keep watching, because in 10 years I don't want to be part of a government, or an opposition, that sits and continues to look at these sorts of statistics. (Time expired)

Question agreed to.