Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Finance, Senator Cormann. Treasury has confirmed that the $42 billion stage 3 of the government's Personal Income Tax Plan, which doesn't start for six years, goes to the top 20 per cent of income earners. Given that stage 3 of the government's income tax plan will cost $10.4 billion a year by 2028 and that it grows at 12 per cent a year, can the minister confirm that, over the longer term, stage 3 of the government's tax plan is the most expensive?

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What I can confirm is that over the longer term our budget remains in surplus. We inherited a weakening economy, rising unemployment and a rapidly deteriorating budget position. Under our sound economic and fiscal management, economic growth is stronger, employment growth is much stronger and our budget position has been rapidly improving.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong on a point of order.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I didn't ask about macroeconomic parameters; I asked a very specific question about legislation that is before this chamber, which is the cost of stage 3 of the government's tax plan.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'll take that as a point of order. The minister's been speaking for 22 seconds. He has a minute and 38 seconds to continue his answer.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What I can confirm is that the government's personal income tax relief plan is fully factored into our budget bottom line and that our budget remains in surplus all the way through from 2019-20 to 2028-29. In fact, we exceed a surplus of one per cent as a share of GDP by 2026-27 so that our plan is more than affordable. What I would say to—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Carr on a point of order.

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

A point of order on relevance: the specific question went to whether or not stage 3 of the government's tax plan will cost $10.4 billion a year by 2028, a 12 per cent growth rate per year. Is that true or not? That was the question.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Carr. The question contained lengthy figures in the preamble. The minister's entitled to address those in his answer.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Self-evidently, out of $144 billion, a component that costs $44 billion is not the most expensive. That's simple maths. What I would say to the Labor Party is that if you are worried about the third stage taking effect so late in the piece then why don't you go to the next few elections—in opposition, I hope—promising to abolish it? Just get out of the way and let the government get on with its job to implement the plan for jobs and growth that we believe is required for the best opportunity for all Australian families to get ahead, and promise to the Australian people that you will jack up their taxes. You've already admitted to more than $200 billion in higher taxes, which would hurt the economy, hurt families and cost jobs. Just add this to the ledger. Just go to the next few elections and say that you're going to increase taxes on everyone. We already know you're increasing—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order, Senator Cormann! Senator Collins on a point of order.

Jacinta Collins (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Cabinet Secretary) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, thank you, Mr President—again, direct relevance. The question is simply this: can the minister confirm that, over the longer term—over the longer term—stage 3 of the government's Personal Income Tax Plan is more expensive? We don't care for the minister's suggestions about what others should do. This is question time, and he should answer questions.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Collins. The minister—

Honourable senators interjecting—

Order! I'll address the point of order when there's silence. Senator Collins, the minister is entitled to address the figures outlined in the first part of the question as well.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you very much, Mr President. In an abundance of openness and transparency—much more openness and transparency than was displayed by the Labor Party when Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard were in government—we have released figures over the medium term. I tell you: I was trying to get your figures on your resource superprofits tax for months. You kept them hidden. (Time expired)

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong, a supplementary question.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I ask if the minister could on notice confirm that, in the longer term, stage 3 is the most expensive. I also ask him this question: why is this government stubbornly holding income tax cuts for low- and middle-income Australians, due to begin this year, hostage to tax cuts for the wealthiest 20 per cent of income earners which don't start for another six years—six years under your own time frame?

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Unlike the Labor Party, we have a long-term plan. The Labor Party doesn't understand what a long-term plan is all about. We have a long-term plan for stronger growth, more jobs and higher wages. We have a long-term plan for income tax relief for hardworking families, which prioritises low- and middle-income earners in the first instance and which provides cost-of-living pressure relief for low- and middle-income earners in the first instance but which also provides incentive, reward for effort and encouragement to all working Australians. The Labor Party happens to think that anyone who earns more than $95,000 a year is somebody that is among the undeserving rich, because that is the effect of the policy that you've announced today.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order, Senator Cormann! Senator Cameron on a point of order.

Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes. The question went to: why is this government holding low-income earners hostage to its so-called long-term tax plan? The minister hasn't gone to that issue.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Quite to the contrary, the question asked why. The minister is addressing the question.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Again, I answered that question directly. We're not. We're just putting forward a long-term plan that provides cost-of-living pressure relief for low- and middle-income earners, at the same time as providing the appropriate incentive, reward for effort and encouragement to all working Australians. If Labor is concerned that it will take six years for it to take effect, promise at the next election that you'll get rid of it.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong, a final supplementary question.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Given the overwhelming majority of senators in this place support stage 1 of the government's income tax plan, why won't this government get on with giving low- and middle-income earners their tax cut which starts this year rather than stubbornly holding these cuts hostage to tax cuts that are at least two elections away?

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I think that Senator Wong is getting rather presumptuous now, because she is assuming what the view of the Senate is. She's making an assumption as to what the view of the Senate is before—

Honourable Senators:

Honourable senators interjecting—

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Well, you know what? We happen to think that it is not prudent for the Liberal-National Party coalition to give a right of veto on economic policy to the Labor Party. We happen to think that the Labor Party doesn't have such a good track record on managing the economy and jobs that we should give you a right of veto over our long-term plan for stronger growth and more jobs. When you lost government in 2013, when Senator Wong—

Senator Wong interjecting—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong!

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

was defeated as finance minister in 2013—

Senator Wong interjecting—

Senator Ian Macdonald interjecting—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong and Senator Macdonald!

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

she left behind a weakening economy—

Senator Wong interjecting—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong!

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

rising unemployment, a rapidly deteriorating budget position—

Senator Wong interjecting—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong!

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

an unsustainable spending growth trajectory—

Senator Wong interjecting—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong! Senator Wong!

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

A point of order.

Senator Wong interjecting—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong! Senator Wong! I've called you to order four times, Senator Wong.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Point of order.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong, you were completely disorderly, and I called you to order on a number of occasions.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

A point of order.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

A point of order from Senator Cormann.

Senator Wong interjecting—

Senator Wong! On a point of order.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On a point of order, Senator Wong—

Senator Cameron interjecting—

Senator Jacinta Collins interjecting—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Cameron and Senator Collins!

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong seems to have missed which side of the chamber she is on. She gets to ask the questions; we get to answer the questions! She was clearly not interested in listening to the answer to the question that she asked.

Honourable senators interjecting—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senators, interjections are always disorderly. I would hope senior members of the Senate would lead by example. Senator Cormann, you have seven seconds to continue your answer.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I was just making the point again that, on this side of the chamber, we are so committed to the future success of Australian families that we would never give the Labor Party a right of veto over our plan for more jobs and higher wages. (Time expired)