Rachel Siewert (WA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Well, what a shame that this place has, unfortunately, voted to pass the second reading, given—

Cory Bernardi (SA, Australian Conservatives) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Is that a reflection?

Rachel Siewert (WA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

No, I'm not reflecting; I'm just giving a personal opinion. There were some things said during the debate which, quite frankly—given that I'm not allowed to say somebody's lied in this place—did not exactly correlate with the truth. Claims that were made to say this card is working are just not true. I'm sorry, they are just not true. Go to the ANAO report. We were told that the card is working to reduce social harm. The ANAO report hasn't said the government can't claim that, but it's said that the trials have not shown a reduction in social harm. But what we have seen is senator after senator who supports this card come in here and propagate that myth—that this has reduced social harm—and it hasn't. The evidence isn't there. Some senators quoted the mayor of Kalgoorlie and pointed to media releases from the mayor that said there had been a reduction—

Peter Georgiou (WA, Pauline Hanson's One Nation Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It's right there.

Rachel Siewert (WA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, I've got a copy too. I've got a copy too, and guess what it says? Mr Bowler said that 'as well as the cashless welfare card, another factor in the reduction of antisocial behaviour was the increased police patrols in recent months in both CBDs'. For those that don't know Kalgoorlie, there's Kalgoorlie and Boulder.

So here we have another example, just like we had in the East Kimberley, where the government is bringing in the card at the same time that there's another measure in place. In the East Kimberley it was the restrictions on alcohol sales. That was operating at the same time, and that came up in the evaluation. In Kalgoorlie, we had extra police patrols, just coincidentally at the same time as the cashless welfare card was introduced. Yes, it could be a coincidence; it could have been they were worried in case there were some additional concerns around the introduction of the card. But the fact is it happened. So you can't measure the impact of the cashless welfare card without comparing it to the impact of the extra police presence—the police operation is called Operation Fortitude. Yes, they say that there has been a reduction, they think, in antisocial behaviour, but police cannot comment on whether it is linked to the cashless welfare card. I've also heard other people quote that in the media. In other words, the police themselves cannot comment on whether it is because of the cashless welfare card or Operation Fortitude. So much for Mayor Bowler's opinion that it's just the cashless welfare card that has been responsible. I'd go as far as to say that of course Mr Bowler would back in the cashless welfare card, given that he was the one who was lobbying for it in the first place. So I don't think that media release is worth the paper it is written on. Maybe you should give credit to Operation Fortitude, or do you think that the police operation has been completely ineffective?

Minister Scullion was in here not long ago making claims around the reduction in social harm. He cannot use the evidence to claim that. He wishes that, but the evidence is not there. He spoke about speaking to women and said that they overwhelmingly support the card. I'm glad he brought up the BasicsCard, because I've been talking about the intervention a lot. He talked about speaking to women in the Northern Territory and about their support for the BasicsCard. Well, the women he's been speaking to are obviously different to the women I have been speaking to—a lot—in the Northern Territory, who don't support the BasicsCard.

What's more, the BasicsCard has been operating in the Northern Territory for over 11 years, and the government keeps falsely quoting—I've said this repeatedly—that it's worked up there. Yet the evaluation of the cashless welfare card showed really, really clearly that it had met none of its objectives—none of its objectives. In fact, there's some evidence in the report to suggest that it has had the reverse effect on some behaviours in terms of further entrenching welfare dependency. It's met none of its objectives. In fact, we still, unfortunately, have a great deal of social harm up there, and I don't think that the government should constantly be going around saying, 'Oh, the BasicsCard's worked fantastically in the Northern Territory,' when we still have an escalating number of children going into out-of-home care.

The Northern Territory government in the past has refused to implement measures around alcohol control to the extent needed, because of pressure from the alcohol industry. I'm really pleased to see that the Northern Territory government has—I think it was yesterday—introduced a floor price on alcohol, on wine. Fantastic! Do you know how long the community has been asking for that measure? Since way before the intervention started. Yet, after all the years of the intervention, we're only seeing that action now. We had the banned drinker register come in. It started operating, but then the conservative government came in and got rid of the banned drinker register.

When the minister stands up there and says, 'We haven't heard Senator Siewert talk about any of those measures,' that is not the truth either. I have been in here week after week, month after month, year after year advocating the measures that should be taken. What do they do? They stick plainly to: 'It's got to be income management. It's got to be income management. It's got to be income management.' It hasn't worked! Now the government in the Northern Territory is taking some measures to restrict the flow, the supply, of alcohol. Expert after expert has also made that point: restrict the flow of alcohol.

Let me come back to the women that I've been talking to, not just in the Northern Territory but in the East Kimberley—the emails I've had from Ceduna but also, most recently, from Kalgoorlie, where the women talked to me about the shame they feel when they have to go into the supermarket. These are women that are on carer payments, for example, who feel this when they go into the supermarket. The minister stood there and said, 'It's just the same as any debit card.' It is not! Everybody in these communities knows what an Indue card looks like. If they don't to begin with, they certainly do when other people start pointing out they've got an Indue card and they're trying to use it, particularly if it fails for some reason and they can't complete their shopping.

The women also talked about having to queue up at the Indue office to try and access the card—just like I would have to do if I wanted to buy something on my credit card online! I would of course go and queue up at my bank to say, 'Could you please switch on this online site so I may buy the necessary medical equipment that I've been trying to buy on my'—so-called—'fantastic, works-like-everybody-else's card.' That's what I do every time I want to use my debit card or credit card. Of course I don't have to do that! I can quite happily use my credit card online whenever I want. You cannot do that automatically with the Indue card.

We had Senator Macdonald in here talking about the gift—sorry, I'm maligning Senator Macdonald; that particular comment, I think, was Senator Leyonhjelm's. He talked about 'the gift of income support'. No, there is a right to income support, and we have international obligations around social security. I'm so over the conservative side of politics talking about the taxpayers—

The CHAIR: The time for this debate has expired.

Progress reported.