Carol Brown (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Disability and Carers) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the minister representing the Minister for Senior Australians and Aged Care, Senator Scullion. Page 101 of Budget Paper No. 2 in the 2016-17 budget states that:

The government will achieve efficiencies of $1.2 billion over four years through changes to the … Aged Care Funding Instrument.

If an efficiency saving of $1.2 billion over four years is not a cut, what is it?

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Before I call Senator Scullion, on my right, I insist on silence during questions so that I can hear them myself. While I'm ruling, I would appreciate a lack of interjections from my left.

Nigel Scullion (NT, Country Liberal Party, Minister for Indigenous Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The Labor Party forget that in 2012 they cut $1.6 billion from the Aged Care Funding Instrument—the ACFI—on exactly the same basis. You discovered that people were rorting the system, so you contracted growth. You didn't make a cut and, because of the bipartisanship, we didn't try to play the silliness that you're playing here. There was an adjustment of $1.6 billion under you—exactly the same. We didn't call it a cut, because it was not. For clarity: we have increased the budget for aged care by $1 billion every year in government. It's an increase of over $4.7 billion from when you were on the Treasury benches. Year on year we have increased the amount of money that's come in to us.

Now you would like to characterise it, by the partisan politics that you like to play in this place, as some sort of cut, but it is not. You haven't convinced us, you haven't convinced the Australian people and you certainly haven't convinced the aged-care sector. In fact, I think when Shayne Neumann was asked on AM radio, he said, 'Labor's not actually in a position to reverse those cuts.' The Department of Health, in the 2016 supplementary budget measures—Senator Polley, you should recall this because you asked questions about the so-called $2 billion saved. The department said: 'The effect of these measures was not to cut the aged-care budget but increase it significantly it over forward estimates. It is a reduction in growth. That's the best way of describing it.' It's not as if you haven't asked the question and been given a comprehensive answer in the past. (Time expired)

Honourable Senators:

Honourable senators interjecting—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Before I call Senator Brown, I remind senators again that I will insist on silence during questions.

Carol Brown (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Disability and Carers) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I ask a supplementary question. How can Prime Minister Morrison claim he is not responsible for a $1.2 billion cut to aged-care funding when, as Treasurer, he allowed the budget papers to be printed stating that he was?

Government Senators:

Government senators interjecting—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On my right: for the second time in a row I ask for silence during questions so that I may hear them, let alone the other 75 people in the chamber.

Nigel Scullion (NT, Country Liberal Party, Minister for Indigenous Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Those opposite do have a history of selectively reading the budget papers. It's not my fault if they can't understand a set of papers. This is emblematic. The only reason we are able to make judicious, significant investments in aged care is because we know how to read a set of budget papers. We know how to run an economy. That's why, year on year, we're able to invest an additional billion dollars, because we have the wit to introduce into this place significant, comprehensive, sophisticated legislation to ensure the protection and the delivery of services to our treasured older Australians. That's why we're able to do it. We made sure we didn't waste $1.2 billion providing invoices to those people who were undeserving, who were providers, and you did exactly the same the year before. (Time expired)

Honourable Senators:

Honourable senators interjecting—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order on my left! And on my right!

Senator Jacinta Collins interjecting—

Senator Collins, at least pause while I am talking!

Carol Brown (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Disability and Carers) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I ask a further supplementary question. Sean Rooney, of Leading Age Services Australia, has said, '$3 billion has been taken out of the aged-care system over the last four years.' How can the minister claim that the government has not cut aged-care funding when the sector says otherwise?

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order on my left. I will call the minister when those who ask the question are silent.

Nigel Scullion (NT, Country Liberal Party, Minister for Indigenous Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Normally they wave a budget at us and say, 'Here's the evidence.' This time they've found a name. Someone out there in the ether has said we have reduced it by $3 billion. This is fantasy time. I know what Australia's interested in. Let me tell you, that adds up to 13,500 residential aged-care places in the approved round. Residential aged-care places continue to grow, from 210,087 in 2018-19 to 233,882 places. We are also adding 775 short-term restorative care places. We are, of course, very importantly—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Brown, on a point of order.

Carol Brown (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Disability and Carers) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I haven't got much hope that he will return to the question. The point of order is on relevance. The senator is not addressing the question that I asked him. Sean Rooney was actually on the program. You said you watched it.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order. I'm listening carefully to the answer, Senator.

Honourable senators interjecting—

I've got all day, but question time is only an hour. Senator Brown, I'm listening carefully. The minister has 14 seconds remaining. You reminded him of your question.

Nigel Scullion (NT, Country Liberal Party, Minister for Indigenous Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The fundamental assertion of the question was that there has been $3 billion worth of cuts somehow by someone. I was just indicating that every evidence is that we have a billion dollars worth of additional funding year on year on year.