Jenny McAllister (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Cabinet Secretary) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Government Services, Senator Ruston. How many families will be impacted by the government's application of its robodebt program to the childcare subsidy?

Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Families and Social Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank the senator for her question, but in a sense I reject the premise of her question. The details you're asking, on specifics, I'm happy to take on notice. But I would point out to those in this chamber that as the minister responsible for social services and as the minister responsible for the welfare system in Australia, I have an obligation to make sure that we have a sustainable welfare system into the future, and that's exactly what I'm doing.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong on a point of order.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The point of order is on direct relevance. The minister was actually asked, as the Minister representing the Minister for Government Services, a direct question about numbers of families. I appreciate that she wants to talk about her own portfolio, but she is being asked a question in her representative portfolio.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You've reminded the minister of the question. I'm listening carefully. Minister, you have a minute and 30 seconds remaining to answer, but I do remind you of the very specific nature of the question.

Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Families and Social Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Mr President, and I would draw your attention to the fact in standing, because I am not the Minister for Government Services, that I do not have the exact information the senator is asking for at hand, and I have offered to take that on notice for the senator. I was merely pointing out that as the Minister for social services I have a certain role, and that's what I was explaining.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator McAllister, a supplementary question.

Jenny McAllister (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Cabinet Secretary) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You said that in a sense you reject the premise of the question. Can we explore that further? When asked about the government's intention to recover debt from families receiving the childcare subsidy, Minister Robert said:

… the department will deal sensitively with families to manage the balancing of family payments.

Does the so-called balancing process that the minister refers to actually mean the government's cruel and unfair robodebt program?

Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Families and Social Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I said in my previous answer, the specifics of your question I am obviously happy to take on notice. But, more broadly, I would say to you that the Australian social welfare system is designed to provide people with what they are entitled to. The expectation of those in this place should be—and it certainly is on this side of the chamber—as well as the broader Australian public, that they expect us to reasonably recover overpayments made to people, to which they weren't entitled.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Gallagher?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

A point of order on relevance: the question is about whether, with the childcare subsidy, the word 'balancing' actually refers to the robodebt program. It's a quite straightforward question.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I take the opportunity in dealing with this to remind ministers that even when they have answered or taken on notice part of a question, other information they offer must also be directly relevant to the question. I am, however, listening very carefully to the minister, and I do believe that her answer at this point is being directly relevant, because she was just turning to the issue of—to use the phrase you used—balancing or debts or different collections of payments. So, I think this information is directly relevant.

Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Families and Social Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I was just getting to the point of saying, as the Australian public would expect of us and as those on this side of the chamber expect, when you have been paid more than you are entitled to then it seems a reasonable expectation that people pay back anything that they've been overpaid. That is the sustainability nature of the Australian social welfare system. (Time expired)

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator McAllister, a final supplementary question.

Jenny McAllister (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Cabinet Secretary) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I ask again for clarity. Does the so-called balancing process referred to by Minister Robert actually mean the government's robodebt program?

Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Families and Social Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I will return to finishing off my previous answer in relation to what occurs at the end of a—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator McAllister?

Jenny McAllister (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Cabinet Secretary) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I would ask you to ask the minister to go to relevance. In particular, we are not asking about general commitments to debt; we are asking about the specific means and specifically whether or not the balancing process is the same thing as the robodebt program.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You've reminded the minister of the question. I remind the minister: while it does occasionally happen, you can't continue your previous answer after a supplementary question. But the minister has been speaking for only nine seconds. I will listen carefully to the remainder of her answer.

Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Families and Social Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

In relation to the process in which we determine whether somebody has been overpaid in relation to childcare payments: it is a process that's undertaken through the tax system. If you have any further details that Minister Robert may want to add to your particular question, I'm more than happy to provide those for you. However, I would point out to you that the Australian public have an expectation that, where anybody has been paid more than they were entitled to, the Australian government has an obligation on behalf of the taxpayers to make sure that that is recovered.