Don Farrell (SA, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Special Minister of State) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Industrial Relations, Senator Payne. How has this government managed to oversee a skills shortage and wage stagnation at the same time?

Marise Payne (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Mr Farrell—Senator Farrell—very much for his note. Sorry to demote you, Senator Farrell; I didn't mean to do that! I think it's important to note that, as a government, we are absolutely committed to ensuring that Australians have the right skills for the workforce of today and, importantly, the workforce of the future. We know that it is necessary to ensure that our VET sector we can deliver those skills and is responsive to the needs of employers, of workers and of students. In the current financial year, we're investing over $3 billion in VET. That investment is broken up by $1½ billion—

Tim Ayres (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

They're the wrong notes!

Marise Payne (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

They're not the wrong notes, because if you had listened to the esteemed senator's question about the skills, then you would know that is exactly what he asked. So where are we investing? We're investing in the states and territories through the National Agreement for Skills and Workforce Development's specific purpose payments. We're investing in the Skilling Australians Fund—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order, Senator Payne! I have Senator Watt on a point of order.

Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Northern Australia) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On relevance—the minister has not addressed the question whatsoever, which is: how have they managed to oversee skills shortages and wage stagnation at the same time? That is quite an achievement, and we're very interested in the answer.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Vice-President of the Executive Council) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On the point of order, I don't think that points of order are appropriately used if it's to mislead the Senate. If Senator Watt had listened yesterday, he would know that real wages growth is higher than it was under Labor, and it's higher than it has been over the last 20 years.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I appreciate that. Thank you, Senator Cormann. That is not a point of order. I remind all senators that a point of order on direct relevance is not an opportunity to simply restate the question.

Senator Wong interjecting—

Senator Wong, can I finish what I've got to say, and then I'll call you. It is not simply an opportunity for that. Please, I ask that a point be made on why the answer is allegedly not directly relevant rather than simply restating the question.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

We have taken note of your exhortation not to simply repeat the question, but for the purposes of articulating a direct relevance point it is necessary to reference the question. Senator Watt didn't simply reference the fact that the subject matter—that is, skill shortages and wage stagnation at the same time—was not a matter that the minister had gone to.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I appreciate that. I'm listening carefully to the minister. I believe the material she is dealing with is directly related to the question. It may not be the answer in the form, the type or the substance of that sought by those asking it, but I think it is directly relevant. There are supplementary questions and a time to debate it after question time.

Marise Payne (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am absolutely happy to concede that my error in commencing my answer was not to say that I reject the premise of the question from Senator Farrell, but it was very nice of Senator Watt to help Senator Farrell with his remarks. Most importantly, as I was indicating about our $3 billion investment in VET, it includes the national agreement, the Skilling Australians Fund and our own skills program—including employer incentives and support for Australian apprenticeships—and the list goes on. Most importantly, I don't intend to take a lecture on skills from those opposite, because we know that the decline in apprenticeship commencements began under the former Rudd-Gillard-Rudd government. We know that the greatest fall in apprentice numbers on record occurred in 2012-13, when the number of apprenticeship commencements fell by 85,000 in a single year. Why did that fall happen? I'll tell you in a moment. (Time expired)

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Farrell, a supplementary question?

Don Farrell (SA, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Special Minister of State) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I do have a supplementary question. Is annual wages growth now better or worse than when this government came to office?

Marise Payne (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Let me be quite clear. The Governor of the Reserve Bank, Philip Lowe, has said:

The strong employment growth over the past year or so has led to a pick-up in wages growth in the private sector …

And he indicated that real wages grew by 0.7 per cent through the year to the June quarter—above the 20-year average of 0.6 per cent and above the rate of 0.4 per cent through the year of growth when Labor left office.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! I have Senator Watt on a point of order, Senator Payne.

Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Northern Australia) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Okay, she finally got there. I was going to say that relevance—

Government senators interjecting—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Please let me hear Senator Watt. Order on my right. Senator Watt.

Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Northern Australia) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The minister finally got there. My point of order was on relevance. The question was a comparison to when the government first came to office, and we haven't heard anything about that.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Cormann, on the point of order.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Vice-President of the Executive Council) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That was a frivolous point of order by Senator Watt. The minister was, clearly, directly relevant to the question asked—directly relevant.

Senator Wong interjecting—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong, I will take your submission.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you. On, I think, the leader of the government's point of order—who seems to now simply be dismissing every point of order that the opposition has—there is something in the standing orders called direct relevance. If the government doesn't want points of orders on it, perhaps their ministers could be directly relevant to the question.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On the point of order raised by Senator Watt, conceding his opening statement, I do, however, believe that the minister, by talking about wages growth, was directly relevant to the question. Again, I ask senators—I cannot instruct the minister how to answer a question. If the minister's talking about wages growth, in the context that she was, I believe that is directly relevant to the question. Senator Payne.

Marise Payne (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you very much. I was saying that real wages grew by 0.7 per cent through the year to the June quarter. It was above the 20-year average of 0.6 per cent, above the rate of 0.4 per cent through the year of growth when Labor left office. Indeed, average weekly ordinary time earnings for full-time adults rose by 3.1 per cent over the past year, which is the strongest growth in six years.

Senator Watt interjecting—

We know that the opportunity to respond to the question is somewhat limited by a pale imitation of former senator Doug Cameron sitting on the other side—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order, Senator Payne! Senator Wong?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, Senator Watt—I could invite the minister to withdraw. I would make the point that this minister has a habit, when she's under pressure, of going personal. Grow up; you're the foreign minister. Grow up! A pale imitation.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator Wong, please. I will call Senator Cormann.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Vice-President of the Executive Council) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong is again misleading—

Honourable senators interjecting—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! I can't even hear Senator Cormann, which is truly spectacular given his voice and how close I am to him. Senator Cormann.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Vice-President of the Executive Council) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong is clearly misleading the Senate. That was a strong and very effective answer the minister gave, which was directly relevant to the question asked.

Honourable senators interjecting—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! First of all, I'm going to rule on the point that Senator Wong made. If senators don't like banter across the chamber, they shouldn't start it by interjecting. I might say, neither the former senator referred to nor the one currently referred to, I think, took it as an insult. I will now move to Senator Farrell's final supplementary question.

Don Farrell (SA, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Special Minister of State) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Mr President. I do have a further supplementary question. Given the Reserve Bank of Australia says, 'Wages growth has been abnormally weak,' and 'lower than average across all industries and states', why does the government continue to refuse to reverse cuts to penalty rates?

Marise Payne (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'm not sure that Senator Farrell heard my previous quote of governor Phil Lowe, who said:

The strong employment growth over the past year or so has led to a pick-up in wages growth in the private sector …

I do think it is important to quote the Governor of the Reserve Bank accurately.

What I won't also take, Mr President, is a lecture from those opposite on the economy, because we know that as a result of our economic plan, as a result of our budget management, we're going to be able to return the budget to balance and into surplus for the first time in 11 years. Those opposite would not be familiar with that concept. I understand that. But we also are very, very cognisant of the fact that there are significant headwinds, that the economies the world over are facing challenges. We are being prudent and careful in our management of the economy, led by the Treasurer and led by the finance minister, and Australians are looking forward with the opportunities that are ahead—including job creation, which is, of course, a key fundamental of our economic plan and our record.