Rachel Siewert (WA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is also to Senator Cash, the Minister for Employment, Skills, Small and Family Business. Senate estimates revealed that 104,480 jobseekers and jobactive participants who had their payments suspended had not re-engaged with Centrelink. That is, they have dropped off the income support system. This includes 12,000 First Nations peoples, nearly 14,000 disabled people and nearly 10,000 homeless people. Fifty per cent of the 104,000 were under the age of 30. Is the so-called lowest dependency on welfare due to the fact that 104,000 people have disappeared off the system and that the department said they didn't know what had happened to them?

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment, Skills, Small and Family Business) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Siewert for her question. You are correct, Senator Siewert. This was explored by you in detail with the department at Senate estimates. To be fair to the department, you are merely paraphrasing part of their responses to you. In terms of the answer to your question, it is a very simple no. You and I will disagree, and that is fair enough, in relation to the commitment of those of us on this side of the government—and our commitment is to get people off welfare and into work. In that regard—and you know this well—we have made changes to the targeted compliance framework, and it is actually working. It is now simpler and easier for jobseekers not only to understand what they need to do but also take control of their own personal requirements. It is also providing protection for vulnerable jobseekers and those who will undertake deliberate and wilful noncompliance. Senator Siewert, you and I have debated this in previous parliaments. You know that we, as a government, have put in place safeguards to ensure jobseekers are not penalised for failing to meet mutual obligation requirements that are not appropriate to their circumstances. So, Senator Siewert, the answer to your question is no. On this side of the chamber we will do everything that we can to get people off welfare and into work, and the changes we have made to the targeted compliance framework are, indeed, doing that.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Siewert, a supplementary question?

Rachel Siewert (WA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Does the government, or does it not, know what has happened to the 104,480 people who have dropped off income support? Does the minister seriously think that 10,000 homeless people and14,000 people with a disability—and 50 per cent of that cohort are under the age of 50—have all got jobs?

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment, Skills, Small and Family Business) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Again, Senator Siewert, this was canvassed, in detail, by yourself and the departmental officials at Senate estimates. What the departmental officials took you through was the process that is undertaken before a person exits the system. That process involves a number of steps along the way to ensure that, at all times, if there is a barrier to discharging your mutual obligation that this is taken care of, and if your job plan needs to be adjusted accordingly, it can be. Senator Siewert, you'll also recall, the department stated to you that jobseekers whose payments are cancelled are able to reapply for income support at any time, and, once they are recommenced, they will receive services and income support as usual. Again, the targeted compliance framework has made it—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order, Senator Cash. Senator Siewert, a final supplementary question?

Rachel Siewert (WA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I will ask again: does the government know what has happened to the 104,480 jobseekers who have dropped off income support? Have some of them re-engaged, have some of them got work or, as many people strongly suspect, do they have no form of income or income support?

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment, Skills, Small and Family Business) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Again, as the department explained in detail to Senator Siewert at Senate estimates, there are a number of reasons that a person exits the system, including that these people have found work. But, Senator Siewert, again, what the department explained to you, in detail, is the process taken with a person, in particular, in the event that they are not able to meet their mutual obligation requirements.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator Siewert on a point of order.

Rachel Siewert (WA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The minister is not answering the question. Does the government know what's happened to the 104,000 people? The minister is not answering that question. I've asked it so many times.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! On the point of order, Senator Cormann.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Vice-President of the Executive Council) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, Senator Cash is being directly relevant to the question. Senator Cash could not be more directly relevant to the question if she tried.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Siewert, I remind you that you are making an assertion that is not in the standing orders about the nature of the answer to the question. I can't instruct the minister how to answer a question. I am only empowered to ensure she is being directly relevant, and I believe the material she is using makes it directly relevant. There is an opportunity after question time for debate of the answers that ministers provide. I call the minister to continue, Senator Cash.

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment, Skills, Small and Family Business) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Mr President. Again, Senator Siewert, the department explained in detail to you at Senate estimates that once a jobseeker exits employment services following a payment cancellation the department is limited—and I think you would understand—due to privacy considerations, in its ability to collect information about the jobseeker's circumstance. However, they are able to reconnect—

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Vice-President of the Executive Council) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I ask that further questions be placed on the Notice Paper.