Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Aged Care and Senior Australians, Senator Colbeck. When asked on Friday whether he'd briefed the cabinet between 10 July and 5 August, the minister said:

I don't believe that I attended a cabinet meeting in that period. I'll check the record for you.

Given the minister has had four days to check the record, did he brief the cabinet on the growing crisis in aged care in that period?

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Aged Care and Senior Australians) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Gallagher for the question. I didn't brief the cabinet in that period of time, but I have been participating in a daily call with the Prime Minister, senior colleagues and the health minister—effectively, a subcommittee of the cabinet—every day all through, particularly, the Victorian circumstance, and sometimes twice a day. This is not, as the Labor Party might try to play it, some sort of frivolous process. We have been working very closely on a daily basis to address the circumstances, particularly in Victoria. I've been working with the PM, the finance minister, Senator Ruston, the Treasurer, the health minister and a number of other colleagues and senior departmental officials across agencies every day to bring to bear the resources that we require to manage what has been a growing outbreak in Victoria. We needed to inject significant resources to assist both the Victorian government and the aged-care sector in Victoria to deal with what was a growing situation. And we continue to do that. We continue to meet on a regular basis. I have a separate meeting every day with the Victorian aged-care recovery centre to get a situation update on the circumstances in Victoria in particular, given the continuing situation that is there.

So the government is not—as is attempted to be portrayed by the opposition—doing anything other than putting its full attention on this. At the highest levels, on a daily, and sometimes twice-daily, basis— (Time expired)

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Gallagher, a supplementary question?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As minister for aged care in this government, when did you first brief the cabinet about the outbreak in residential aged care in Victoria?

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Aged Care and Senior Australians) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I have spoken to the Prime Minister and senior cabinet colleagues on a daily basis, with—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator Gallagher on a point of order?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, Mr President, on direct relevance. It was a direct question about when he first briefed the cabinet, not when he had a chat with the Prime Minister. That's not the question I asked.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Cormann?

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Vice-President of the Executive Council) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Colbeck is directly relevant to the question asked. He is explaining that he has daily conversations with the leader of the cabinet and, indeed, with all of the ministers who are part of the key cabinet subcommittee, the Expenditure Review Committee, and others as appropriate. Of course, in a moment of crisis that is what Australians would expect their Minister for Aged Care and Senior Australians to do. The minister is being directly relevant to the question.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'll take Senator Wong on a point of order and then I'll rule.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Mr President. The point of order is direct relevance. The minister has been asked, and has answered a question about the cabinet briefing. He is now seeking to avoid answering another question about cabinet briefing in relation to an unprecedented crisis in aged care which has caused the deaths of many Australians. We would ask the minister to be directly relevant to the question, which was: when did he first brief the cabinet about this unprecedented crisis?

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Firstly, I will say that the minister has been speaking for eight seconds so it is difficult to make a strict judgement on direct relevance at that point in a one-minute answer. Secondly, I'm not willing to rule that a minister who is strictly talking about his conversations or discussions with the Prime Minister is not directly relevant to a question regarding whether he briefed the cabinet, given that the Prime Minister is the head of cabinet. However, the answer to that must be narrow in its scope. It is not up to me to instruct a minister how to answer a question. It is up to others to judge or debate after question time. Senator Colbeck to continue.

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Aged Care and Senior Australians) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I have said: I am not going to allow the Labor Party to try to attempt any suggestion that this government has not put its full focus on the management of this entire COVID-19 outbreak. I have been present at the subcommittee of cabinet meetings since March to discuss it on each of the occasions that it has convened. Since July, that would be daily or, sometimes, twice-daily to manage the circumstances in Victoria.

The outbreak in Victoria has had the full attention of me, my fellow ministers who are involved in that subcommittee of cabinet and the Prime Minister on a daily basis since the outbreak— (Time expired)

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Gallagher, a final supplementary question?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

So I presume the answer to that question was that you never, ever have. Minister, in light of the unprecedented crisis in residential aged care in Victoria, with the loss, sadly, of more than 328 lives, how can you possibly justify not briefing the federal cabinet about this unprecedented crisis in aged care?

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Aged Care and Senior Australians) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The Labor Party tries to make this something that it's not. As I've said, I'm focusing on my job with the ERC and with the Prime Minister on a daily basis, and with the finance minister, with the Treasurer, with the Minister for Social Security and anyone else who is seconded to the committee with the Minister for Health. That's on a daily basis. Any suggestion the Labor Party tries to make that this pandemic has not received my full attention, the Prime Minister's full attention and the government's full attention is just not so. We have been there every single day to make sure that the resources that need to be brought to bear can be brought to bear and are brought to bear.