Malarndirri McCarthy (NT, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Families and Social Services, Senator Ruston. The Australian Securities and Investments Commission, ASIC, has advised that the ASIC Act 2001 prohibits a credit or debit card being sent to another person. I quote ASIC's advice:

A person must not send another person … a credit card or a debit card.

What does this prohibition mean for the Morrison government's proposed rollout of the cashless debit card in the Northern Territory?

Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Families and Social Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator McCarthy for her question. I would like to advise the senator that the premise on which she's based her question about the cashless debit card being contrary to section 12DL of the ASIC Act 2001 is not actually correct. The power is a protection to prevent financial institutions from signing people up to products such as credit cards with preapproved limits without first obtaining their approval. Just as when social security payments are made by another means, via cheque, it's clear that directing someone's social security payment to—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order, Senator Ruston. Senator Wong, on a point of order?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I seek leave to table the letter from ASIC, which might assist the minister in answering this question because it doesn't appear that her answer is consistent with the advice that's been received.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Is leave granted? I understand it will be considered. For the moment, Senator Ruston to continue.

Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Families and Social Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

To finish off on this particular question: it's clear that directing someone's social security payment to the cashless debit card does not fall under the provision which Senator McCarthy referred to. That is why, in 2016, ASIC provided the government with a no-action letter for the purposes of the cashless debit card trial.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator McCarthy, a supplementary question?

Malarndirri McCarthy (NT, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Given many communities do not have Centrelink services and the nearest towns are hundreds of kilometres away, what will happen to people who don't have a cashless debit card? Will they simply have no money, no food and no way of getting it?

Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Families and Social Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator McCarthy for her follow-up question. As Senator McCarthy would be well aware, what we are proposing to do with the rollout of the cashless debit card into the Northern Territory and Cape York is—I suppose this is the best description of it—to give the people who are currently on the BasicsCard a technology upgrade. At the moment we believe that there are probably around 16,000 places where the BasicsCard is able to be operated in Australia. The cashless debit card works in nearly one million outlets and basically is able to be operated in any premise that has an EFTPOS machine. The inference of your question is completely misplaced in the sense that the only thing this legislation seeks to do is to provide people who are currently on the BasicsCard the added utility and functionality of being able to use a card that is universally recognised.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator McCarthy, a final supplementary question?

Malarndirri McCarthy (NT, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I seek leave to table the letter from ASIC which refutes all of what the minister is saying.

Leave granted.

The coalition government has been proposing the rollout of the cashless debit card across the whole of the Northern Territory for 18 months. How is it that the Morrison government has failed to properly consider that fundamental elements of Mr Morrison's proposals are prohibited by legislation, according to this letter from ASIC?

Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Families and Social Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I would beg to differ with the interpretation that is being made in the question as to what the letter says, according to my advice. However, I have the letter now and I will refer to it in the future. But I want to make it very, very clear that what we are seeking to do with the legislation to which the senator refers is to enable people who are currently on the BasicsCard—and, I have to say, it's a really well named card; it's pretty basic and it's also very obvious to people who are on the BasicsCard that that's what they're on. The new technology that works in every outlet that has an EFTPOS machine will be completely and utterly neutral in its appearance. People can use the card without anybody knowing the type of card it is. In fact, we are currently in discussions with the Traditional Credit Union in the Northern Territory to make sure that we can assist those people in the Northern Territory who wish to bank with their own credit union to use as well. (Time expired)