Jenny McAllister (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Cabinet Secretary) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I move:

That the Senate take note of the answer given by the Minister for Finance (Senator Birmingham) to a question without notice asked by Senator O'Neill today relating to the member for Hughes.

There is room for many different voices on different issues in a mature democracy, and we can find room to disagree about policy priorities, about facts and about values. But there are some lines that should not be crossed, and one of those lines is endangering lives. Over the past year, the member for Hughes has crossed that line again and again and again. He has made demonstrably false claims that endanger ordinary people's health. His comments are now notorious, arguing, against all available scientific evidence, that particular drugs can cure COVID, when they cannot, and claiming, as he did just this month, that mask wearing is dangerous and that forcing children to wear masks is child abuse.

Peddling false medical information at any time is dangerous. Doing so during a global pandemic that has claimed 2.2 million lives worldwide is inexcusable. Yet excuses are exactly what is being offered from the top down: by the Prime Minister, by the Deputy Prime Minister and, today in this chamber, by the Leader of the Government in the Senate. These excuses don't hold up. They don't stand ordinary scrutiny. Asked if Mr Kelly's remarks would cause panic and fear in the community, Mr McCormack lamely said he did not think so, offering this excuse:

I don't know how many followers Craig Kelly has on his Facebook or a social media platform, but it's probably poor compared to perhaps what the mainstream media has.

Mr Kelly proudly boasts that his posts reached over 1.8 million people in January and 'ensured that more people are exposed to the facts and have been educated about ivermectin and HCQ and zinc'.

The Prime Minister has refused to condemn Mr Kelly's comments, saying, glibly, 'Mr Kelly is not my doctor.' Well, an actual doctor—the vice-president of the AMA—said that misinformation like that being shared by Mr Kelly is 'torching the foundation of community health and science'. But the Prime Minister said he thought Mr Kelly was doing a good job as the member for Hughes. Well, what does that look like? What is this 'good job' the Prime Minister is talking about? Mr Kelly's Facebook page is a relentless cavalcade of misleading information. Since 30 January he has published 23 posts; 12 of them promote COVID misinformation, nine promote climate misinformation and one relates to a community event—just one. And he topped off that performance by doing a 90-minute podcast with Mr Pete Evans, a man who last year was fined by the Therapeutic Goods Administration for making false claims about supposed COVID-fighting devices and went on to tweet a meme containing Neo-Nazi imagery.

It should be easy for the Prime Minister, for Mr McCormack and for Senator Birmingham to condemn a man who has peddled dangerous conspiracy theories, and it should be even easier to condemn the use of taxpayer funded platforms to spread them. Mr Kelly is afforded a privileged position. He is a preselected member of the Liberal Party. He is a member of the Australian parliament. I don't think it should be beyond Mr Morrison to say, very clearly, what is clear to everybody else in this community: that what Mr Kelly is saying is wrong, that it is dangerous and that people should not listen to him in particular. A real leader—a real leader with a spine—would find it within himself to express an opinion about the wrong and dangerous ideas espoused by Mr Kelly. The failure to do so is even more extraordinary when we consider the relationship between Mr Morrison and Mr Kelly, because it has been widely reported that Mr Kelly owes his job, owes his preselection, to Mr Morrison. In 2018 we saw the headlines 'Morrison intervenes to save maverick MP Craig Kelly from preselection defeat' and 'Scott Morrison's fixer offered Craig Kelly's challenger a $350,000 party job to drop out'. Well, Mr Kelly has his seat in this parliament, thanks to Mr Morrison, and the least Mr Morrison can do is show some courage and hold him to account.

Paul Scarr (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I too believe, as the Prime Minister believes, that Craig Kelly does a wonderful job for the people of Hughes. And I want to say to Senator McAllister and all those opposite who are seeking to attack Mr Craig Kelly—or anyone else in this country, as we go through this process of encouraging Australians to receive medical advice from their trusted source and to make their own decision to vaccinate on the basis of that expert medical advice—that the way to approach this debate is not to demonise, is not to antagonise, is not to insult; it is to have a respectful discussion and seek to persuade people.

Senator O'Neill interjecting—

That is the way to deal with the issue, Senator O'Neill. I've actually read quite widely some of the literature that has been published over many years with respect to the best way, the most effective way, to deal with those people in our community, including those overseas, who are resistant to vaccinations. The lesson I took from reading that scientific literature in many cases was that the worse thing you can do is exactly what the opposition sought to do here today, and that is to attack and vilify people, as opposed to engaging in a mutually respectful discussion and encouraging people—

Senator O'Neill interjecting—

You're not at ALP preselection for the Senate ticket today, Senator O'Neill, so please don't interject on me. It is not the way--

Senator O'Neill interjecting—

Sue Lines (WA, Deputy-President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order!

Paul Scarr (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is not the way to boost maximum participation in relation to this vaccination rollout. It is simply not the way. I'm quite happy to circulate some of the articles I've read, which consider research over many years, in relation to the best way to encourage people to vaccinate. I will be taking the best medical advice that I can find, and that includes my own local GP, Dr Ben Gordon—and I give you a shout-out, Ben; you've been a loyal servant to my medical health over many years. I'll be sitting down with my GP and having the conversation which thousands of Australians will be having—or should be having—with their medical professional. I am entirely confident that—just as is the case with the high vaccination rates that our children have with respect to many vaccines that have been absolute lifesavers for millions of people around the world—after those conversations take place between Australian individuals and families and their medical professionals, their medical advisers, the majority of Australians will make their own free, voluntary decision to be vaccinated.

Senator O'Neill interjecting—

It does not help, Senator O'Neill, to seek to vilify and tip a bucket on people who have a different view to you. The result of it is—and there is scientific literature to this effect—that people simply seek to confirm their own prejudices and bunker down. That's the result of it. That's not my theory; that's the theory that has been written in scientific literature again and again. You must have a mutual, respectful debate and emphasise the positive aspects of people obtaining a vaccination, not just for them but also for their families and for the broader Australian community.

So I say that those opposite should reflect on the carping, negative approach to this topic which they have brought into this chamber today, because I don't think it's constructive, and I think you will achieve exactly the opposite of what you're seeking to achieve. You know what? One of the big issues is that so many Australians have a lack of confidence in so many government institutions, across the board, and the best way we can encourage those Australians to be vaccinated is to encourage them to have discussions with their own medical professionals—with doctors, with nurses, with pharmacists—obtain the best advice available to them and make the decision that's in the best interests of themselves and of their families. Once they have those discussions, once they receive that comfort, I'm very confident that Australia will have an extremely successful vaccination rollout program, as we've had with respect to a number of vaccines over decades and decades.

Deborah O'Neill (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I cannot believe that we're actually this year still talking about Conspiracy Craig, the member for Hughes, Mr Kelly, who's a fringe crank who isn't fit to sit in the other place. He's a danger to public discourse, he's a danger to public health and he's a danger to public institutions. This is an MP who is so hated by his own Liberal branches that, in the last two elections, the Leader of the Liberal Party has intervened to save his preselection from them. Just think about that: Scott Morrison could not be moved to stop the deselection of the Father of the House and former defence minister Kevin Andrews, but the Prime Minister saw fit to intervene to stop Kelly's rightful removal by his own branches. By his selective action, Mr Morrison deems Conspiracy Craig more worthy of saving than a 30-year veteran in this place. The member for Hughes and those who excuse him, those who support him and those who lack the integrity to call out his dangerous deceptions are a constant embarrassment to this parliament. Sadly, Prime Minister Morrison is one of those who continue to excuse Mr Kelly's behaviour, and we saw the same acceptance of Mr Kelly's comments by Senator Birmingham, the Leader of the Government in the Senate.

Let's look at some of the statements that Mr Kelly's put out. He went on a state-sponsored trip to Azerbaijan and declared that Australia had a lot to learn from its electoral system, despite the corrupt Azerbaijani government releasing the election results two hours before the polls closed. That's how much of a sense of democracy Mr Kelly has. Business Insider reported that Craig Kelly emailed the Therapeutic Goods Administration at the height of the pandemic last year about the efficacy and safety of experimental COVID-19 cures and, when told that they didn't work, he instead perpetuated the lie that they did. He cannot accept the facts from health professionals; he cannot accept the truth. He cannot accept the public health advice of his own Prime Minister, yet the Prime Minister gives him enough rope to go out and do whatever he's doing out there. Mr Kelly said that the Australian medical officials, who everyone seems to be hiding behind, had committed crimes against humanity. That is the man that you are supporting in your contributions today—conspiracy crackpot Craig, the member for Hughes, who ignores all credible, widely critiqued and supported evidence. He constantly denies the scientific consensus around climate change. He openly spreads lies and mistruths about the attacks on the US Capitol. He promoted baseless allegations about voter fraud in the wake of the 2020 US presidential election. He is unfit to serve in this place, but he has the Prime Minister's confidence. He has the Prime Minister's cover. He has the Prime Minister's complicity in this conspiracy against Australian people. He has the Prime Minister allowing taxpayers' funds to enable him to broadcast misinformation. He was reported as saying, 'You don't need no vaccine.'

I now hear that in addition to these egregious examples of a failure of leadership by a man who sits in the Australian parliament, he went on a podcast of Pete Evans for 90 minutes—and what a great conspiracy theorist leader he is. He was kicked off Facebook for repeatedly spreading dangerous COVID-19 misinformation. He lost several commercial deals, because people in business will do what this government won't do: they're actually calling fakers out. They're calling liars out. They're calling deceivers out. This government is incapable of acknowledging the deception that lies within their own party. Mr Evans is a gleeful proponent of ludicrous conspiracy theories about QAnon, PizzaGate—both of which have inspired violent insurrections and armed attacks. That is the danger of following the path of this government.

Across the globe we are facing a global pandemic that has claimed over two million lives. Every day that Mr Morrison allows the member for Hughes to tweet out and to put his messages out on Facebook it impacts 1.8 million Australians. We cannot afford this. Every single member of the parliament, especially the Prime Minister, needs to speak with a united voice on the medical evidence to ensure that Australians get appropriate treatment. The truth matters and lies promoted at the highest levels by popular influencers, which I am ashamed to say Mr Kelly is, have a real and material impact on our health. (Time expired)

Matt O'Sullivan (WA, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Australia has been through an incredible 12 months dealing with the COVID pandemic. We know that lives, sadly, have been lost far too soon and we know that many jobs have suffered. We're certainly on the road to recovery, and recent announcements about the surge in new jobs, particularly in full-time jobs, are really good news.

In my home state of Western Australia right now we're experiencing it, and it's an occurrence that we're not that familiar with because we have had 10 months of no community transmission. Having just spent some time in the regions on holidays with my family, it's been an experience that we have cherished and all West Australians have cherished. But right now West Australians are doing the right thing. They're staying home as they've been asked to do. They're getting tested.

As I stand here right now, the Premier is giving an update on where things are at. Thankfully now, after the second day after the announcement, we still have zero cases of community transmission. West Australians are going to get tested, which is also very good. This sort of scenario is with us, and may continue to be with us, where there will be the occasional outbreak, because we are seeing as many Australians return home as we possibly can so that they can get back with loved ones, so that they can maybe attend funerals—family members that are sick who are trying to return or they were unable to leave early in the pandemic but they've now freed themselves up to be able to come home. We're going to continue to see many, many new arrivals, so we continue to run the risk—as we're seeing in Western Australia right now.

Really, the only way that we'll get to a point where we don't have the risk and we don't have the massive interruptions to businesses and livelihoods is of course to see the vaccine rolled out. Our Therapeutic Goods Administration is arguably one of the best in the world. Australians can have a tremendous amount of confidence in the Therapeutic Goods Administration, knowing that they have gone through a very rigorous process—a very careful process—to ensure that the vaccines that Australia has acquired and now approved are going to be rolled out in a safe way. They have approached this with real determination but they haven't been hasty either. They've been methodical and have applied themselves to ensure, through an independent process—that's independent of government—that this vaccine and the various items we will be dealing with across the country are safe and able to have the impact that we need.

Like many people—about 80 per cent of our population in Western Australia—we don't want to have to go through lockdowns. I think of the small businesses that are being impacted right now. I think of those cafes that are having to throw out huge amounts of fresh produce they had purchased in advance, believing they were going to be trading over the next few days. They have to throw that stuff out. I think of the workers who right now are having to stay at home and aren't able to earn a living for their families. The Australian government is there for those people, providing all sorts of support for them. But, clearly, the vaccine is going to be the way for us to deal with this.

Labor, on the other side, say that they support this, but by raising such ridiculous motions and questions, and by highlighting fringe, little issues they are not doing anything to support Australians or to build confidence in the vaccine program which can actually help us deal with it.

Tony Sheldon (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

First of all, we're living in an age of misinformation in the middle of the global health pandemic, when listening to expert health advice has never been so important. We have crowds of people online spewing rumours and conspiracy theories, undermining experts and telling people to ignore health experts. It's no wonder that the government has its work cut out; when it comes to fighting this virus and getting the country back to where it was, it takes a team effort—everybody's effort—and an obligation to that team.

It's even more ridiculous that members of their own party are out there spreading misinformation online, undermining their own efforts to fight the virus. What has the member for Hughes had to say? In talking about the Therapeutic Goods Administration, a regulatory agency of the Australian government as part of the Department of Health, he said, 'The day of reckoning is coming for the TGA'. He said that they committed crimes against humanity and that they're asleep at the wheel.

This is what an elected member of parliament has said about the independent-expert-led body, the TGA—the body that advises and provides expert advice. How much harder is getting out of this pandemic going to be when members of the parliament are undermining the TGA and members of this government?

The Prime Minister has had no problem intervening on caucus members in the past but he certainly has a problem intervening with Craig Kelly. He had no problem cutting off Minister Ruston when she was speaking at a press conference but, when it comes to cutting off the member for Hughes, what does he say? 'He's not my doctor.' You're right, Prime Minister, but he is a member of your government. This is the sort of lame, blame-shifting response we have come to expect from the Prime Minister. When half the country was on fire and he was nowhere to be seen, he told us he didn't hold a hose. When a member of his government is undermining the vaccine or telling people not to wear masks, he reminds us that the member for Hughes isn't his doctor. You can just imagine it now: in a few months, when we're in the middle of a vaccine rollout, being undermined every step of the way by the crazies of the Liberal Party backbench, and the Prime Minister's team is falling apart, what will the Prime Minister's response be? 'I don't give the shots.' Apparently the only time the Prime Minister is responsible for anything is when there is a chance for him to do a press conference or a photo shoot or a marketing pitch.

What else did the Prime Minister have to say about the member for Hughes?

You get it from official government websites, and that's what I encourage everybody to and that's what we're doing and that's what we're investing in. Don't go to Facebook to find out about the vaccine. Go to official government websites.

Prime Minister, there are 25 million Australian Facebook users. Craig Kelly says he's reached over a million people on Facebook. It is increasingly becoming the source of news, including on how to deal with the vaccine and the COVID-19 pandemic. Australians should be encouraged to listen to experts, but the job of spreading the advice of experts both in traditional media and social media is harder when members of this very parliament are spreading misinformation online.

Leadership is all about choices, often tough choices. But in this case, leadership is about the easy choice, the obvious choice. It would cost the Prime Minister nothing to tell Craig Kelly to deactivate his account. It would do the country a world of good for the Prime Minister to take on this misinformation and to shut it off completely. It would make the government's life easier, when it comes to fighting the virus or rolling out the vaccine, to stop the member for Hughes's Facebook page from spreading conspiracy theories. Instead, the Prime Minister is failing the test of leadership, by not making the tough decision, the right decision, the right choice in favour of national health and our communities. The choice to stand beside and even endorse the member for Hughes is a choice to endorse a candidate you agree with. The Prime Minister has sent a mixed message to the entire public.

Sue Lines (WA, Deputy-President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Sheldon, your time has expired, and I remind you to refer to members by their correct titles.

Question agreed to.