Malcolm Roberts (Queensland, Pauline Hanson's One Nation Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Industrial Relations, Senator Payne. The government's proposed industrial relations bill, in its current construct, is overly complex and seriously undermines the better off overall test, which protects workers from dodgy wage deals. Australian workers and small businesses have sacrificed so much during state and federal government virus lockdowns and restrictions, while big business have largely flourished. Pausing the BOOT test for two years would effectively leave the door open to big business cutting wages and conditions and, ultimately, leave many Australian workers worse off. Minister, is the Morrison government prepared to sink the boot into its changes in order to enable One Nation and other crossbench members to continue genuine discussions on industrial relations reform that won't hurt Australian workers and will protect Australian workers?

Marise Payne (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Roberts for his question. Let me begin by responding to the last part of his question and absolutely assure him that of course the government is prepared to engage in constructive discussions and negotiation with him and his colleague Senator Hanson, and with all members of the chamber, on these matters. Of course we are, as we have done in the past on a whole range of pieces of legislation, and we continue to do.

It would seem, Senator Roberts, that we do have a different view about the implications in relation to the better off overall test in the legislation. I've noted your view. I think, however, there are, outside this chamber, and perhaps inside in some cases, a number of false claims being made about the proposed changes to the better off overall test under the enterprise bargaining framework. For example, there have been suggestions that we are removing the better off overall test. That is not the case. The bill does not remove the test. In fact, enterprise agreements will continue to leave workers better off than they would be under the relevant award. That's one of the reasons that the bill is making enterprise bargaining easier—so that more agreements are able to be made and more workers are left better off. We see that the changes we're making to the better off overall test will ensure that the Fair Work Commission gives significant weight to the views of the parties—that it considers actual and reasonably foreseeable work arrangements, not hypothetical ones, and it considers the overall benefits to workers.

What the bill also does is to build on the existing public interest exception to the better off overall test, which has actually been in Commonwealth industrial legislation for decades, including in the Fair Work Act, which was, of course, introduced by those opposite. This longstanding exception only applies in exceptional circumstances and where it's not contrary to the public interest. It's not a provision that's used very often, but it is sometimes necessary to save a business and protect jobs during a short-term crisis. The bill—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order, Senator Payne. Senator Roberts, a supplementary question?

Malcolm Roberts (Queensland, Pauline Hanson's One Nation Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

When answering my questions in Townsville, the CFMMEU Mining and Energy Division's legal director, Mr Bukarica, had the courage and integrity to acknowledge that the union's Hunter Valley division had enabled the permanent casuals rort. Until we get to the core of the industrial relations problem, the government's proposed changes add needless complexity and transfer the risk from big business to small business. When will the Morrison government admit its role, through six years of inaction, in enabling big mining companies, labour hire firms and the Hunter Valley CFMMEU to collude in redefining the term 'casual' and then in exploiting casual workers? (Time expired)

Marise Payne (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I would, of course, acknowledge that Senator Roberts and I have discussed a number of matters, particularly relating to particular coalminers in Australia in recent times, as he has raised them through the estimates process in which I've been present representing the Minister for Industrial Relations. So I acknowledge your longstanding and abiding concern for those individuals. I'm not familiar with the advice on this matter that you received in Townsville from the CFMMEU legal adviser, Senator, but it is not the case that the government agrees with the characterisation that has been made. The government's view is that these initiatives and this reform in fact will contribute in a positive sense to responding to the economic crisis triggered by COVID-19. We see ourselves at a critical point in our recovery, and, as we navigate our way out of this COVID-19 induced economic crisis, it's our ability to— (Time expired)

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Roberts, a final supplementary question?

Malcolm Roberts (Queensland, Pauline Hanson's One Nation Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, our country's largest employer is small business. Will you give Australian workers an assurance that you are prepared to drop the Morrison government's changes to the better-off-overall test and simply focus on genuine industrial reform that won't hurt already-struggling workers and small business?

Marise Payne (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I absolutely agree with Senator Roberts about the importance of small business in this country, as Minister Cash advised us in response to an earlier question from Senator Small. I won't give that guarantee, Senator, because the government does not share the same view of the legislation. But I will undertake, of course—the government undertakes; the minister himself undertakes—to work closely with senators to address issues of concern.