Louise Pratt (WA, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Manufacturing) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I have a question this afternoon for Senator Reynolds, the Minister for Defence. Reports indicate the minister's then chief of staff sought advice from the Department of Finance about the handling of an alleged sexual assault. When did the minister first become aware her chief of staff was seeking that advice?

Linda Reynolds (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I said in my statement last week, I became incrementally aware, over a period of days, of Brittany's story, with private conversations with her and my then chief of staff and also via reports from parliamentary authorities. When I met with Brittany on Monday, we made sure that she had the appropriate support and she also had access to the Australian Federal Police, which she did. Beyond that I'm certainly not going to go into any more detail about those private conversations.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Pratt, a supplementary question?

Louise Pratt (WA, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Manufacturing) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

When did you, as minister, first see that advice, and what action did you take?

Linda Reynolds (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I could not have been any clearer in answering this. There was a course of conversations, as I said last week, and incrementally as those conversations—the privacy of which I have maintained and I still maintain; I will not breach the privacy of those conversations—

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong, on a point of order?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

This minister is accountable to the Australian people through this chamber. We are not asking her questions about what discussions occurred with Ms Higgins, although Ms Higgins's statements can speak for themselves. It is a very straightforward question: when did you first see the advice and what action did you take? Mr President, I would ask you to ask the minister to come back to the question. Otherwise, really, one wonders about the purpose of question time if ministers are allowed to obfuscate and duck in this way.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong, I've allowed you to restate the question. My view on this matter is: if the minister is explaining the reasoning behind a course of action taken—

Honourable senators interjecting—

There's an opportunity after question time for debate. Senator Pratt, on the point of order?

Louise Pratt (WA, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Manufacturing) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

We can ask questions of fact and we are asking, in this case, for a date. When did the minister first see that advice and what action was taken? We are able to ask direct questions. I've been through many of these iterations in estimates, where we're told we can ask for facts and dates without revealing what the advice was. We are not asking for the advice; we are asking for a date.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Pratt, please. My view on this matter is that if the minister is explaining a course of action that she took then it's not up to me. If that is directly relevant to the question being asked—and I am listening carefully; I've allowed opposition senators to restate the question—there's an opportunity to debate the content of answer. But I'm not in a position to direct—

An honourable senator interjecting—

I will listen carefully to Senator Reynolds.

Linda Reynolds (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I have said many times now in this chamber that I became aware of this incrementally in terms of the circumstances. On the Monday when I met with Ms Higgins—

Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Northern Australia) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My point of order is on relevance. We're not asking about the chain of events; we're asking a very specific question around when this minister became aware of this piece of advice.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On the point of order, we only got about eight seconds into the minister's answer. If the minister is explaining a course of action, I'm going to decree that to be directly relevant. I do take the point it was a very narrow question, so the course of action needs to be explained in the context of being directly relevant to the point asked. Opposition senators have had the opportunity to restate the question. But I can't instruct the minister how to answer, nor the content of an answer to, a question. Senator Wong, I've allowed opposition senators to do so and I've just advised that a course of action can be explained and it needs to be directly relevant. The question was quite specific. I'll call Senator Reynolds to continue. I am listening very carefully.

Linda Reynolds (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I have no more to answer on this because I have covered this at great length. The fact is those opposite in their questions, by the nature of their questions, are asking questions that go to the heart of the private conversations that I had. At the time, I respected her privacy. (Time expired)

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Pratt, a final supplementary question?

Louise Pratt (WA, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Manufacturing) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Ms Higgins has said that when police involvement was raised at the meeting with the minister and her chief of staff on 1 April 2019 she was told, 'We need to know now.' Why was this said?

Linda Reynolds (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Again, this is Brittany Higgins's story to tell publicly. Respecting her privacy, respecting the process that she is going through, it is simply not my position, respecting her agency and privacy, to say anything more on the matter.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My point of order is direct relevance. The minister should not hide behind Ms Higgins's courage. These are Ms Higgins's words and her account of what occurred. The chamber is asking this minister to explain why those words were said.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I believe in this case, Senator Wong, it is particularly clear that the minister is explaining the reasoning for the answer she is giving, so I'm not in a position to instruct her to answer it differently. There is the opportunity immediately following question time to debate these matters.

Linda Reynolds (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I had finished my answer.

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask that further questions be placed on the Notice Paper.