Lidia Thorpe (Victoria, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

[by video link] My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister. The current target for reducing overimprisonment of black kids by 30 per cent and adults by 15 per cent won't deliver parity between black and white on imprisonment rates until 2093. Is the government serious about not locking up black people before we die? We'll all be dead by 2093.

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Thorpe for her question and for her participation, along with that of many other senators, this morning in the statements acknowledging the Closing the Gap statement made and the implementation plan for the new approach to the targets in relation to the Closing the Gap program.

I did reference, in my remarks in that debate this morning, some of the new targets in relation to justice within the Closing the Gap targets that have been developed alongside the Coalition of Peaks, state and territory governments and the Australian Local Government Association. Those targets that I referenced, which you have quoted, Senator Thorpe, are targets set out through until 2030 for reduction in the proportion of Indigenous Australians incarcerated. It should not be extrapolated that the reductions sought through to 2030 would be a linear rate of reduction into the future. It would absolutely be the government's hope—as I'm sure it is the hope of every state and territory government, as I am confident it is the hope of the Coalition of Peaks, and as I know from your question, Senator Thorpe, it is your hope—that we could and should strive to do even better than those targets to 2030 and to see the rate of reduction and equivalence in relation to incarceration rates achieved at a much faster rate beyond 2030 than can be achieved within that next eight-year period. We're serious about the investment in the programs there. We're serious about the fact that setting targets at a state and territory level as well enables them to be held to account. The reporting mechanisms enable everyone to focus on what is working to drive those rates down even further in the future.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Thorpe, a supplementary question?

Lidia Thorpe (Victoria, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, your Minister for Indigenous Australians has said that a 2093 parity date on the imprisonment of our people will hinder progress. You say you are co-designing with blackfellas. Why didn't you listen to those blackfellas that asked you to increase the justice targets?

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I said in response to the primary question, we don't accept the idea that the target for parity in any way sits that far into the future. What we have outlined is the target for 2030 and the reduction rates that we seek to achieve by 2030. It is very important that the Justice Policy Partnership, with some $7.6 million of funding; the work in relation to preventing harm in Australian prisons and other places of detention; and other funding in relation to support for criminal justice reform and particularly the work of coronial inquiries; as well as family dispute resolution mechanisms—all measures that we have invested in following consultation and engagement with communities—are about making sure we drive those rates down towards parity. We would all wish that it could be done faster and we will be striving to exceed those targets. As I said, we certainly expect to see the rates of reduction increase beyond 2030 as a result of that focus on evidence based policy.

Scott Ryan (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Thorpe, a final supplementary question?

Lidia Thorpe (Victoria, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

We've only been waiting over 200 years, so what's the hurry? Our people, who have been managing our own affairs for thousands of years, must be in charge of our own destiny. Minister, will your government support a treaty, the very thing that our people have been marching for and fighting for for decades? Will the Morrison government support a treaty?

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is not the policy of our government to implement a treaty, but it certainly is the policy of our government to work as closely as possible, recognising the crucial role of the co-design principles that the Minister for Indigenous Australians, Mr Wyatt, brought to this approach around closing the gap and this new approach in terms of having designed those targets in conjunction with the Coalition of Peaks, seeking to engage Indigenous Australians at every step of that design approach and seeking to engage in relation to the implementation plan and the priorities—the more than $1 billion of new measures there. Crucially, having the states and territories setting their own targets as well—on which they will be held to account and on which there are review mechanisms in place—enables us not just to see a national picture but also to ensure all levels of government are working towards achieving the improved outcomes that we seek.