Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Birmingham. In early November, Mr Morrison leaked private text messages from French President Emmanuel Macron. Why did Mr Morrison leak private text messages from President Macron and betray the trust of an ally, just to score a domestic political hit?

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Wong for the question. I'm sure everybody is aware of the public commentary, news coverage and comments that had been made at the time in relation to awareness of discussions between Australia and France on matters leading up to the decision that was made by our government, in the national interest, to cancel the contracts in relation to the procurement of the Attack class diesel-powered submarines in favour of pursuing an alternative pathway, through the new AUKUS strategic partnership with the United States and the United Kingdom providing for procurement of a future nuclear-powered submarine alternative.

Everyone—and especially Senator Wong—I'm sure, is aware that there were suggestions that at some level France was unaware of elements of Australia's concerns about the type of program that we would need and the type of capability that we would need for the future—

Senator Wong, I think you would fully appreciate that what the Prime Minister when he landed in the UK sought to do was outlined very clearly, in response to some of that public commentary—precisely the type of engagements that had happened in the lead-up to that announcement and the type of discussions that had been had in relation to ensuring that the context in which all of those discussions were made was better understood in the public discourse surrounding that. We believe these were important national security decisions that firmly are in the national interest.

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong, a supplementary question?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yesterday Mr Morrison tried—and failed—to use private text messages exchanged with the Leader of the Opposition to blame-shift his way out of trouble. Why is Mr Morrison making a habit of revealing private text messages?

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I think those questions have been dealt with, in terms of the previous questions that I had and the question just before. I'd refer to those answers. But, again, it comes back to those opposite wanting, as always, to play the man—

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting—

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order!

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

And we know they want to play the man because their advertising briefs even show that they want to play the man—

Opposition senators interjecting—

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order!

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Their advertising briefs even show it. You know, Mr President, I was looking at their advertising brief for their TikTok campaign, and that said—

Opposition senators interjecting—

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order on my left! Minister, resume your seat. Senator Wong, what's the point of order?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I have two points of order. The first is direct relevance. It's not relevant what this minister thinks about what the opposition might or might not be doing. It is a question about Mr Morrison's behaviour. The second point of order goes to the leader's continued refusal to ever turn and address you, Mr President, and to always face the chamber. It is customary for us to address the chamber through the chair. Now, I agree that—

Government senators interjecting—

Are you going to let me finish?

A government senator: No.

Would you like to speak, Senator Birmingham?

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong.

Government senators interjecting—

Order on my right! Senator Wong, you have the call, but please come to a conclusion.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I appreciate that, Mr President. I accept that all of us address the chamber, but this leader never turns to speak to you, and I would invite him to do.

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong, you've had the opportunity to bring the minister—

Honourable senators interjecting—

Senator Wong, on the first point of order, you've had the opportunity bring the minister's attention back to the question. I'm listening carefully to the minister. On the second point of order, I don't believe there is a point of order. Minister.

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Labor's TikTok advertising brief—let me quote from it. It is quite—

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, a point of order please. How this is possibly relevant—

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong—

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Direct relevance: how is this possibly relevant to a question about Mr Morrison's habit of revealing text messages? Please do not allow question time to so stray—

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong!

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I haven't finished my point of order, Mr President. I'm asking you to not allow question time to so depart from conventions and from the standing orders. Please pull this minister up.

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, on the point of order: Senator Wong wants to interrupt as I'm midway through making a quote. She doesn't know where it finishes, or perhaps she's been looking a little bit more carefully at their advertising brief than I expected. They want to ask questions that go to personal character assessments of the Prime Minister. I think activities that may well point to the fact that Labor have a plan, a tactic in this regard, and that their approach is all about personalisation are indeed directly relevant. If they want to ask questions that are personal character attacks on the Prime Minister, then it is entirely appropriate to refute those.

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong, on the point of order, I am listening carefully to what the minister is saying. I will bring the minister back to the question. However, I do not know where the minister is going with a particular statement. I cannot know what's in the minister's mind. Minister, I'll bring you back to the question.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President—

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong, I've just ruled.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, and I'm saying something.

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Is this a point of order?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Do you want me to move dissent?

Government senators interjecting—

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order on my right!

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The opposition will consider its position on your ruling, and I would ask you to be very clear, after you hear the next part of the answer, what your ruling is, so the opposition can consider its position on your ruling. Am I being crystal clear?

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong, you have made your point. Resume your seat.

Government senators interjecting—

Order on my right! I am listening carefully to the minister, as I always seek to do, particularly when the chamber is not disorderly. Minister, you have the call.

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I said in the opening sentence in response to this supplementary, where I referred the senator to the answer to the previous questions that were asked in relation to earlier text messages, where I referred the senator to my answer to the primary question, they directly address the question that was being asked. I was then seeking, Mr President, to go on—indeed, to address the broader theme that underscores the Labor Party question. I appreciate that Senator Wong is very sensitive about that broader theme, but I was very clear in the opening sentence what the answer was. (Time expired)

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong, a second supplementary question?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Are Mr Morrison's colleagues concerned he will leak their private text messages if it suits him?

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

This is the pattern we have from the Labor Party, in terms of it being all about the personalisation of conduct and the personalisation of the Prime Minister. No, we're not, so Senator Wong can't say that I might not answer the question. No, we're not, to answer that part of the question. Those opposite are clearly running a clear campaign. The quote I was giving before was the Labor Party creative brief: 'We want to create authentic and engaging content to create awareness on our overarching theme.' Guess what their overarching theme was. Was it the Labor Party's values? No, it wasn't. Was it the Labor Party's policies? No, it wasn't.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I ask you to rule on whether that answer can possibly be directly relevant to my question. I ask for a clear ruling on that, Mr President.

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong, resume your seat.

Senator Wong, I'm about to rule. You've had the opportunity to bring the minister back to the question. The minister did—

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

No, he didn't!

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The minister did. Allow me to rule, Senator Gallagher.

Well, then, don't interrupt please. The minister directly addressed the question at the beginning of his answer. He is now expanding. I am listening carefully to what he says. You have had the chance to bring him back to the question. Senator Wong, is this a different point of order?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'm asking, in relation to what I think is your ruling, to have the opportunity to take advice from the Clerk, including the rulings by Senator Ryan, which indicated very clearly that a directly relevant answer did not ground compliance with the standing orders of freewheeling thereafter. I would respectfully ask, Mr President, that you return to the chamber with that ruling after you have the opportunity to take advice.

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong, I will take advice and come back to the chamber tomorrow. However, I will say that I continue to listen carefully to the minister's answer. Minister, you have the call with 20 seconds remaining.

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thanks, Mr President. To close it off and bring it to the point of direct relevance to the overarching theme of Labor's question—what is Labor's overarching theme? It turns out it's Scott Morrison. It's not anything to do with their policies or their values or their approach. They put it in writing in their own advertising brief that their overarching theme is only about Scott Morrison, not about anything they themselves have to offer.