Raff Ciccone (Victoria, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Health, Senator Colbeck. Is the Morrison-Joyce government prepared to consider an override of existing vaccine mandates as has been proposed by Senators Rennick and Antic?

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Senior Australians and Aged Care Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I indicated in my answer to Senator Roberts earlier, the position of the Australian government has always been that, through the vaccine program, vaccination should as much as possible be a voluntary process. As I also indicated in my answer to that question, Australians have overwhelmingly turned up to be vaccinated. We are at almost 92 per cent with a first dose and we're in excess of 86 per cent with a second dose. As I indicated to the chamber before, of the 508,000 Australians who are eligible for a booster dose, over 75 per cent have turned up for a vaccine

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, please resume your seat. Senator Wong, on a point of order?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The point of order is direct relevance. I'd refer you to the remarks of Senator Ryan, when he held this position, that obviously short, sharp questions do require a greater degree of relevance. Senator Ciccone's question was a very simple question. It was not about Australians getting vaccinated. It was a simple question about whether the government is prepared to consider an override of vaccine mandates as some coalition senators propose. That was the only topic raised.

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I will agree, Senator Wong, to the extent that this was a fairly narrowly phrased question. I am listening carefully to your answer, Senator Colbeck. I do note that you have been speaking for only a short part of your answer so far. I will bring you back to the question, however.

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Senior Australians and Aged Care Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'll go back to the beginning of my answer, where the first thing I said was that the Australian government's position all the way through has been that, as much as possible, the vaccination program for Australians should be a matter of choice—as much as possible. There are some mandates in place that have been supported by health advice provided to the AHPPC, and that has been worked through with the states. The states have put in place, through public health orders, supports for those processes for health workers, for frontline health workers, for aged-care workers, for home-care workers and for a number of others. So, in some circumstances, where the health advice has indicated that, we have supported the process of mandates. But we have said all the way through, and our position has not changed—

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, resume your seat. Senator Keneally?

Kristina Keneally (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My point of order is relevance. Again, just making the point that the minister, with only 30 seconds left, has not yet gone to the very short, very direct question: will they override existing vaccine mandates?

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister Birmingham.

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On the point of order in this regard, the opposition is now seeking to dictate the terms in which a minister answers the question. You did bring the minister's attention to the question previously. The minister has been directly addressing issues in relation to mandates as they apply to the vaccination rollout. The minister has clearly been addressing those issues in relation to mandates and the voluntary application of the vaccine rollout. That is directly relevant to the question. The fact that the opposition may be seeking a 'yes' or 'no' type answer is not, and indeed many presidents have ruled very clearly, within the power of the President—to define how a minister answers the question. The answer needs to be directly relevant to the question, and Senator Colbeck, by addressing issues around vaccine mandates, is clearly being directly relevant.

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong, on the point of order?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On the point of order, that last submission to you is clearly not consistent with precedent, and if you wish to take advice we certainly would be happy for you to do so. Secondly, we are not seeking a 'yes' or 'no' answer; we simply want him to address the issue of override. He has not gone near the issue of override, and that was the question.

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I've been listening very carefully to the minister's answer. In stating the government's position directly in relation to the question, I think that is being directly relevant. I am happy to review the Hansard on this, but I am happy to give the call back to Senator Colbeck at this point, if he wishes to continue.

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Senior Australians and Aged Care Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you. I will, as I was just doing, restate the government's position again, which has not changed: the vaccination program for Australians should be a voluntary program, where at all possible. I have indicated, on health advice through AHPPC and the national cabinet, that the Commonwealth government has supported some level of mandate, but the position of the Australian government has not changed—that this should be a voluntary program, where at all possible. (Time expired)

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Ciccone, a supplementary question?

Raff Ciccone (Victoria, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Has the government sought any advice on overriding existing vaccine mandates, and, if yes, when and for what purpose?

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Senior Australians and Aged Care Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I've indicated a number of times already—and I'm prepared to do so again—the government's position with respect to the vaccination program is that it should remain voluntary. The mandates that are being applied in states and territories are mandates that are being applied under state and territory law, not Commonwealth law. The Commonwealth's position in respect of those is that the mandates should be appropriate and proportionate in identified high-risk settings, events and contexts, and should be given effect through state and territory public health orders, which is exactly what's happened through the process. But our position throughout—

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, please resume your seat. On a point of order, Senator Ciccone?

Raff Ciccone (Victoria, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On direct relevance, for the second time: I've been very specific. Has the minister sought any advice? That was the heart of the question that I asked.

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'm listening carefully to the minister's answer. You've brought him back to the question. I will continue to listen to the minister's answer. Minister, you have the call.

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Senior Australians and Aged Care Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

So the government's position has not changed throughout the administration of the vaccination program. I've indicated to you the circumstances under which they should apply, and I will take on notice whether any new advice has been requested by the government.

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Ciccone, a second supplementary question?

Raff Ciccone (Victoria, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Will the minister rule out making any changes to arrangements which allow states and territories to enforce vaccine mandates, in order to secure the votes of Senators Rennick and Antic?

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Senior Australians and Aged Care Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

This is, as Senator McKenzie indicates, the states' house. However, the government's position with respect to the vaccine rollout has not changed. Just because Senator Ciccone asks me the same question in a different way doesn't mean that I'm going to have to give a completely different answer. The government's position with respect to this is completely clear. We have a position that's been consistent all the way through, and we maintain that position—that the vaccination program, where at all possible —

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Keneally!

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Senior Australians and Aged Care Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

should be a voluntary program, except for the circumstances that I've indicated through the answers that I've given today.

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong!

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Senior Australians and Aged Care Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It's a clear and it's a consistent position, which we have provided all the way through. Just because the Labor Party try and ask the same question in a different way doesn't mean that I'm going to change my answer.