Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Senior Australians and Aged Care Services, Senator Colbeck. Does the minister think that $22 per hour is enough for aged-care workers?

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Senior Australians and Aged Care Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I've said in this chamber before, and I've said on a number of occasions in front of your committee, Senator Gallagher, the determination of the salary for people across Australia is a matter for Fair Work Australia, which was actually legislated by the Labor Party. What I believe is that all Australians in the workforce, but particularly those working in aged care, should be fairly compensated. There is a case open right now, being considered by Fair Work Australia, in relation to the wages of Australians working in the aged-care sector. As we said we would do in response to the royal commission, we have provided support and advice to that case as it has progressed.

About a week or so ago, Mr Albanese was asked: 'Do you say that aged-care workers should have a 25 per cent pay rise? Do you agree with that?'

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Keneally, on a point of order?

Kristina Keneally (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, on direct relevance. This was a fairly tightly worded question. It had no embroidery. It was very direct. It was literally: 'Does the minister believe the pay of $22 per hour is sufficient for aged-care workers?' It made no mention of anything about the industrial relations system or other parties in the parliament. It was a fairly tightly worded question. I ask you to bring the minister back to the question.

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I've been listening to the minister answer the question. I believe that the first part of his answer was relevant to the question. The minister was straying into other territory, so I've allowed you to bring the minister back to the question. I will listen carefully to his answer. Minister, you have 40 seconds remaining.

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Senior Australians and Aged Care Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I have directly responded to the question, but it is pertinent that Mr Albanese, when asked about this, said, 'It's up to the Fair Work Commission to determine what that figure would be'! Now, they don't want to hear that.

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister!

Honourable senators interjecting—

Order! Senator Pratt! Senator Keneally?

Kristina Keneally (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank you for your previous comments about the minister straying from the question. Again, a point of order on direct relevance: he is straying again.

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Birmingham?

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On the point of order: the question was about wage rates. The minister is absolutely within his rights to outline how wage rates are set and, indeed, to use direct quotes about the validity of the system that sets those wage rates. The minister was not making a political point from what I heard at the time Senator Keneally took her point of order. He was using a direct quote about the system that sets wage rates, which was entirely relevant to the context of the answer he was giving.

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Gallagher, on the point of order?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On the point of order, and following on from Senator Birmingham's comments: the minister was making a political point. He was quoting from a transcript about the Leader of the Opposition and he was making a political point. It had no relevance at all, and it was ignoring the direction that you just provided to the minister. He completely ignored your direction.

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On the point of order, Senator Canavan?

Matthew Canavan (Queensland, Liberal National Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, on the point of order: can I point out here that all the minister is doing is confirming how our wage system works by referring to someone who has been a member of this parliament for many years, Mr Albanese. The only implication you can take from the points by Senator Gallagher is she does not think that Mr Albanese is an authority about how our system works, and he does not know, apparently, how our system works—

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator Canavan!

Matthew Canavan (Queensland, Liberal National Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

because all the minister is doing is quoting someone who probably knows—

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

This is a debating point. Senator Canavan!

Matthew Canavan (Queensland, Liberal National Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

how the system works. It's not a political point.

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Canavan, resume your seat. I think we've all heard enough. I allowed you to direct the minister back to the question, as I believe there was a risk that he was straying from the direct topic. I will continue to listen to the minister's answer. I am not yet convinced that the minister is not being relevant, but I am listening very carefully. Minister, you have the call for 31 seconds.

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Senior Australians and Aged Care Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I've said, I believe that all Australians in the workforce, particularly those in aged care, should be fairly remunerated. The level of that remuneration should be determined by Fair Work Australia. That's what the government said, and that's exactly what Mr Albanese said. He agrees. So I believe that they should be fairly remunerated. I know they work hard. I appreciate how hard they work. (Time expired)

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Gallagher, a supplementary question?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The opposition isn't asking about the tribunal's view. We are asking the minister responsible for aged-care services and an aged-care workforce whether you believe, as the minister responsible, that pay rates of $22 an hour is sufficient for aged-care workers. You should answer that question and not avoid it.

Government senators interjecting —

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator Abetz!

Honourable senators interjecting—

I will not call the minister. I haven't got a mask on. I will not call the minister until there is silence, Senator Abetz. Minister?

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Senior Australians and Aged Care Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'll say it again: I think that all Australians in the workforce should be fairly remunerated. The balance of how that remuneration is established in relation to all other elements of the economy is rightly and properly determined by Fair Work Australia. That's why Fair Work Australia was set up. I presume that's why the Labor Party established Fair Work Australia. And whatever pay rise is granted to workers in the aged-care sector, Mr Albanese agrees with the government that it's up to Fair Work Australia to decide. That's the process. I believe they deserve a fair day's work for a fair day's pay, and they work hard. They work extremely hard. I've acknowledged countless times in this chamber how hard they work. I've spoken to aged-care workers. I believe that they should be fairly recompensed, and I will continue to maintain that.

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Gallagher, a second supplementary question?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Does the minister believe that aged-care workers are fairly remunerated now? And have you personally asked Mr Morrison to make a submission to the Fair Work Commission work value case in support of a wage rise for aged-care workers? You referred earlier to help and support provided by the government. Please outline what that help and support is.

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Senior Australians and Aged Care Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My understanding is that the advice we've provided to Fair Work Australia has been published by Fair Work Australia. Fair Work Australia wrote to the government and asked us to make a submission in relation to this case. We have done that and we will provide any information they seek. There's one element that wasn't a matter for Fair Work Australia to determine, and we've advised them of that—that was in relation to future budgeting. We have provided and we will continue to provide the information that Fair Work Australia requires in the determination of this case. The government have responded to the royal commission's recommendations, and we have said in response to the royal commission's recommendations that Fair Work Australia is the appropriate place for the determination of wages.

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Keneally, on a point of order?

Kristina Keneally (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Direct relevance. The question also included, 'Did the minister personally ask Mr Morrison to make a submission to the Fair Work Commission?' With 13 seconds left, we'd appreciate it if the minister could get to that part of the question.

Slade Brockman (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The minister can be directly relevant to any part of the question. You have brought the minister's attention to a particular part of the question. Senator Colbeck, you have the call for 13 seconds—unless you have finished your answer.

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Senior Australians and Aged Care Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As Mr Albanese said, it's up to the Fair Work Commission what that figure should be. Fair Work Australia is the appropriate determiner of wages in this country. The government believes that as well.