Senate debates
Tuesday, 2 August 2022
Questions without Notice
Energy
2:07 pm
Karen Grogan (SA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
My question as to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. Can the minister outline the current state of the Australian energy market and its consequences for Australians?
Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Thank you, Senator Grogan, for the question and for your interest in how this is affecting Australians and Australian families. The reality is that Australians are feeling the pain in their hip pocket because of nine years of denial, nine years of chaos and nine years of failed energy policies, as well as the significant international factors that we are experiencing.
Honourab le senators interjecting—
Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Minister Wong!
Honourable senators interjecting—
Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
You don't like it, do you? You don't like the fact—
Honourable senators interjecting—
Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Minister Wong! Interjections and yelling out at the top of your voice are absolutely inappropriate and disorderly to the point—
Honourable senators interjecting—
Order! To the point that, when I tried to establish quiet, none of you could hear me. It is disorderly. It's your question time, your opportunity to ask questions, that's being interfered with. The level of noise has to be reduced.
Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
The impact from the former government's lack of energy policy is being felt across the economy by Australian families and businesses. Skyrocketing wholesale electricity prices are putting pressure on budgets. They promised a gas-lead recovery and you had a gas crisis. Renewables, the cheapest form of energy, declined under you. The fact is the lack of policy certainty, the lack of any policy framework, the chaos—do you know what it did? It stifled investment. It slowed the uptake of renewables. Instead of being well placed to deal with this challenge, Australians were left vulnerable by a government that had 22 energy policies.
Honourable senators interjecting—
Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Minister Wong, please resume your seat. Seriously! It's not only disorderly; it's disrespectful. I will keep sitting the minister down for as long as it takes, because it's your time that is being wasted.
James McGrath (Queensland, Liberal National Party, Shadow Assistant Minister to the Leader of the Opposition) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Oh, good!
Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Thank you, Senator McGrath—calling out like that is completely disorderly. Minister Wong.
Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Well, they might not like to recall how a market operates but let me tell you this: your chaos stifled investment. Nine years, 22 energy policies, you took four gigawatts out of the—
Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Minister Wong, please resume your seat.
Honour able senators interjecting—
Senator Henderson, I'll call you when it's quiet. Senator Henderson.
Sarah Henderson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Communications) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Madam President, thank you. Could I ask if you could ask the senator to direct her comments through the chair? Thank you.
Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
They took four gigawatts of capacity out of the system, they put one in and then they wonder why that has contributed to the price increases that Australians are experiencing. Then they come in here and say: 'Oh, oh! It's really bad!' Well, maybe you should have thought of that in the nine years you were in government—the nine years you were in government! Australians are paying the price. (Time expired)
Sarah Henderson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Communications) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Madam President, Senator Wong has continued to refer to 'you' in her contribution. Could I ask you to again remind her that she is to make her comments through the chair and not directed at the chair?
Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Senator Henderson, it is quite appropriate for anyone in the chamber to refer to me as 'President'.
Sarah Henderson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Communications) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Meaning the coalition—
Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Senator Henderson, that's not a point of order, thank you. Please resume your seat. I'm not accepting that it's a point of order, so please resume your seat. A first supplementary, Senator Grogan.
2:11 pm
Karen Grogan (SA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Can the minister now outline—
Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Senator Grogan, please resume your seat. Senator Henderson?
Sarah Henderson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Communications) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Can I just respectfully ask that you review your order then and come back to the chamber tomorrow?
Sarah Henderson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Communications) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Thank you so much.
Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
On the point of order: we can get the President to keep reviewing all the time, but I think the President thought that you were talking about the 'President'. I understood, and now I think it is clarified, that you feel sensitive about me calling you 'you', so I am supposed to call you the opposition—correct? I will attempt to do so, President.
Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
It is correct that it is consistent with the standing orders. I would make the point that everybody who stood here in the nine years they were in power has used the word 'you'!
Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Senator Wong, resume your seat. Senator Grogan.
Karen Grogan (SA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Thank you for that first answer. Can the minister now outline what action the Albanese government is taking to secure Australia's energy future?
2:12 pm
Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Well, we're getting on with the job. We're working with industry to invest in the technology our nation needs to secure supply to power the future and drive down emissions. It is extraordinary that a party that pretends to understand markets refuses to take responsibility of the mess they've made of the market. And the mess they've made of the market is one primary reason why we see price increases. And their only response to price increases was to hide them—to hide them! That's been their only response.
We are giving AEMO more powers to address projected gas shortages and other challenges in the electricity market—
Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Minister Wong, please resume your seat.
Honourable senators interjecting—
Minister Wong, please continue.
Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
We are progressing our capacity market with the states to ensure we have reliable supply, and through the national energy transition agreement we are delivering energy policy to support investment. And, importantly, we are implementing the Powering Australia plan that Australians voted for. (Time expired)
Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Senator Grogan, a second supplementary.
2:14 pm
Karen Grogan (SA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Can the minister outline what the impact is of hiding this information on the state of the energy market from Australians?
Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Health and Aged Care) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
On a point of order, standing order 193(3). The questioner and several ministers on the other side have continuously referred to an action by the previous minister and suggested that he tried to hide, and a number of other assertions along that. That is an adverse reflection on somebody in the other place, and suggesting that he did; the minister did not do that. The matter that—
Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Senator Ruston, it's not a reflection on the minister. Please resume your seat. It's not a point of order. I've asked—
No, because you are debating the point. It is not a point of order. Please resume your seat. Do you have a point of order, Senator Scarr?
Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
If it's on the same matter I have ruled on it, so I'm not going to—
Paul Scarr (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
It's a different matter, and that is imputation of an improper motive—
Paul Scarr (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
which is different from a personal reflection.
Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
it was not an imputation. I don't accept the point of order. Minister, please continue.
Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
On the point of order, if I may, President? I think the word was 'hiding' not 'lied'.
Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
After listening carefully to the various comments that have been made, I would request that, given there does seem to be some confusion, you do review the Hansard, what was said, and then come back to the chamber tomorrow with a ruling.
Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Thank you. Senator Cash, I did hear the words that Senator Ruston referred to, which was 'hiding'. I took advice from the Clerk, but if it satisfies the Senate I am more than happy to review the Hansard. Thank you, Senator Ruston. I'm not entertaining any further points of order on this matter, so if it's a new point of order, I'm happy to hear it.
Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Health and Aged Care) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
A point of order in relation to the request that's before you, at the moment, in terms reviewing the particular information. I would seek for you to also review comments that have been made by others, including Senator Gallagher and Senator Watt, on the same matter.
Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Senator Ruston, you are well aware that you can't take a retrospective point of order. I have agreed to review the Hansard and come back to the Senate. Minister Wong?
Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
On the point of order and ask them to withdraw—
Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Order, Senator Wong. Please continue with the question, the second supplementary, asked by Senator Grogan.
2:17 pm
Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Transparency when it comes to markets is important. Transparency when it comes to elections is important. What we know is that the member for Hume, the former industry minister, saw a 19.7 per cent increase to the default market offer and amended the industry code for electricity retailers on 6 April—
Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Minister Wong, please resume your seat. Senator Ruston?
Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Health and Aged Care) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
On a point of order, in relation to making a reflection on somebody in the other place for an action that they did not take.
Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
That is a debating point, Senator Ruston, but, to be perfectly honest, there were so many interjections, particularly from the right, I was struggling to hear Minister Wong. Once again, I would ask—
Senator McGrath! From the left. Minister Wong, please continue.
Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
The member for Hume amended the industry code for electricity retailers, four days before the election was called, to delay the release of increases—
Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Minister Wong, please resume your seat. Senator Ruston?
Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Health and Aged Care) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
On a point of order, in terms of reflecting on a member in the other place. The minister, in responding to the question, is making an accusation of inappropriate behaviour by the member for Hume, which she has no evidence of.
Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Senator Ruston, once again, that is a debating point. Minister Wong, please continue.
Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
The effect of the actions of the member for Hume delayed the release of increases in the default market offer for New South Wales, Queensland and South Australia until after the election, and no amount of point of order or interjection can hide the fact that what is occurring in the energy market is as a consequence of your chaos, and your only response was to try and hide it until after the election. So don't come in here and go on about electricity prices. We know who the guilty party is. (Time expired)