Jane Hume (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. I refer the minister to the questions asked in the other place of the Prime Minister and the Minister for Regional Development, Local Government and Territories. Can the minister please confirm that the Minister for Regional Development, Local Government and Territories has breached the Prime Minister's code of conduct?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank the senator for the question. Obviously I have been here, so I haven't listened to every word that has been uttered in the other place. With all due respect to my senatorial colleague, I am not necessarily going to take as read her assertion about what has been said. But I will make the point that the opposition, in their attack on this, are seeking that this government uphold a standard that they never did. You never did it in government and never in opposition.

The reality is that we have strengthened the ministerial code of conduct so that ministers are not able to hold shares or blind trusts. If you had this standard in government, would you like to know who would be in breach? The Leader of the Opposition would be in breach, the Leader of the National Party would be in breach, the Shadow Treasurer would be in breach and the Manager of Opposition Business would be in breach.

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting—

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The truth hurts, doesn't it, Senator?

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, please resume your seat. Senator Hume?

Jane Hume (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Madam President, I rise on a point of order on direct relevance. I only asked whether it was true that the Minister for Regional Development, Local Government and Territories has breached the Prime Minister's ministerial code of conduct—the current Prime Minister's ministerial code of conduct.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Hume. I do believe the minister is being relevant. It is a question about the code. Minister?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am asked about the ministerial code of conduct and alleged breaches of same, and I make the point that the code of conduct that applies to the executive under this government is the standard that those opposite, including Senator Hume, never held themselves to. I would make that point—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, please resume your seat. Senator Hume?

Jane Hume (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong, I am sorry, but that was an imputation directly on me, and I don't think you have actually read my register of interests, because then you would see that, unlike many people on your side of the chamber, I do not own any shares.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Hume, this is not an opportunity for debate. Minister Wong.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It was not intended in the way it obviously was heard, and I withdraw that. I do withdraw that.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I have always taken the view that it is just easier not to own anything. But I would make that point. I am sure the Prime Minister has answered whatever questions the Leader of the Opposition or his tactics team have put to the Prime Minister. We have made clear that the ministerial code doesn't require—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, please resume your seat. Senator Birmingham?

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

President, I note that the Leader of the Government in the Senate has spoken generically about the ministerial code—has made a number of other assertions irrelevant to the question but has spoken about the code. It was a direct question about whether a minister has breached the code. If the Leader of the Government in the Senate indicates that she is not aware of the precise details, in the 13 seconds remaining, she should take the question on notice so she can provide a direct answer to the direct question.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Birmingham. I am struggling with your point of order. I accept that you acknowledge that the minister is answering the question. I note the comments you made in relation to her most recent statement. I don't believe that is a point of order, but it is up to Senator Wong whether she takes it on a notice or not. Minister.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As is my practice, I will obviously provide more information to the chamber if I am able.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Minister. Senator Hume, first supplementary.

Jane Hume (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

When did the Minister for Regional Development, Local Government and Territories first contact the Prime Minister or his office to notify a breach of the Prime Minister's ministerial code of conduct? If you do not have the date exactly, Senator Wong, you can also return to the chamber with that.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I think in opposition we asked quite a number of questions which went to the knowledge of the minister that the senator here in this chamber was representing. Obviously this one of those. If I can provide further information about that, I will do so.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Hume, a second supplementary?

Jane Hume (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The Code of Conduct for Ministers was published online on 8 July 2022. Did the Minister for Regional Development, Local Government and Territories take any action to comply with the Prime Minister's code of conduct before media reported on her breach, almost two months later?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Obviously that's not something I have any personal knowledge of, but I again will see if there's any further information I can find. It is the Prime Minister's expectation that ministers do comply with the code. He's made that clear both privately and publicly. I would also make the point that this is a higher standard than has been applied in the Commonwealth of Australia for nearly a decade. Obviously it's a different standard to the standard that was applied by those opposite. On that basis, I ask that further questions be placed on the Notice Paper.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

We're out of time, Senator Hume.

Opposition senators interjecting—

An opposition senator: It was a point of order!

Senator Hume, please resume your seat. The minister had finished her answer—

Honourable senators interjecting—

Order! I am giving a direction. It is not a debating point. Senator Wong had finished her answer and had then asked that further questions be put on the Notice Paper. There is no point of order, thank you, Senator Hume.

Opposition senators interjecting—

I'm not entertaining further points of order on that matter.

Jane Hume (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Madam President, can I request that you review the video of the chamber?

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Sure. I am happy to do so. Senator Hume, please resume your seat.

Honourable senators interjecting—

I would ask senators in this space to respect the direction I give. I accept that you may not like the direction, but you need to accept it. I have agreed to review the tape. I do not need you to keep talking when I've asked you specifically to sit down.