Andrew McLachlan (SA, Deputy-President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

A letter has been received from Senator Lambie:

Pursuant to standing order 75, I propose the following matter of public importance be submitted to the Senate for discussion:

The Tasmanian State Government proposal for a $750 million stadium in Hobart should not go ahead. The money would be better spent on health and housing in Tasmania.

Is the proposal supported?

More than the number of senators required by the standing orders having risen in their places—

I understand that informal arrangements have been made to allocate specific times to each of the speakers in today's debate. With the concurrence of the Senate, I ask the clerks to set the clock accordingly.

Jacqui Lambie (Tasmania, Jacqui Lambie Network) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

If the Tasmanian state government gets its way, we're going to spend $370 million on a new Hobart stadium at Macquarie Point. Anybody with a cheque book worth $375 million in free cash and facing the problems that Tasmania is facing wouldn't start with a stadium. The lack of a you-beaut stadium is a problem, yes, but it is not at the top of the list of priorities. So why are we doing this? It's because we have a gun to our heads and it's being held by the CEO of the AFL.

The AFL says we can't have a team without building the stadium, even though we already have two. Both of them meet the grade for the AFL and we play games there now. But you don't have to worry about those kinds of details when you're not the one paying for it. And the AFL are not the ones paying for it, Tasmanian taxpayers are. Why? Because the new stadium was never included in the AFL task force business case for a Tassie team. It wasn't supposed to be part of the deal. It snuck its way in and suddenly we're on the hook, just like a fish.

Don't get me wrong, it's not to say that a stadium wouldn't be a good thing to have—it would be great to have, I'm sure. Hobart is missing out on major conferences. At the moment, Hobart doesn't have a site for a conference like that. It means we go without the money that comes from interstate tourism. That money is worth something to the state coffers. How much? I have no idea, because the state government of Tasmania has no idea—no business case prepared and no figures supporting the decision. We just don't know, it's pie-in-the sky stuff. There will be some value from it, and that's a good thing. It's why it's not a bad idea in isolation, but we just can't look at this in isolation—I wish that we could. But if we're going to back this, what do we say to the people sleeping in their cars? 'Here are some free tickets, go on your way'? Do we just tell pensioners freezing in their homes in winter because they can't afford their power bills that we will send them some AFL branded socks? Fair dinkum!

It would be a fine thing to have a stadium in more economically secure times, and maybe we'd even be able to justify it right now. But it can't be on top of the list of things we need to spend $375 million on in Tasmania. We are in a housing crisis and we are in a health crisis. People are dying waiting for a hospital bed. They're not dying waiting for a bloody footy team! People are living in tents and our priority has to be putting a roof over their heads, not putting a roof over a stadium. The argument from the Tasmanian Premier that this money won't come at the cost of health and housing, with all due respect, is absolute rubbish! It is up to him where they allocate the money that Tasmanian taxpayers pay. He should wake up to himself!

Is he saying it wouldn't be addressed faster if we spent more? Why? Is he out of ideas of what he could spend the money on to make things better soon? If he is, I would tell him to throw a rock out of his office window and whoever it hits will have a million ideas for him. But don't actually do that, because if it hurts them there will be nowhere in the health system to put them! If he isn't saying that, and he has ideas about how to make things better sooner, is he saying that they don't need the money? If so, why isn't he doing them already?

Of course, what he's saying is that he has ways to make it better faster, but that they need money right now and they don't have the money. They don't have $375 million sitting behind their couch.

So, where's the money coming from, Premier? From the roads? From the schools? From the hospitals? From Tasmanians to the AFL: the AFL is holding a gun to the heads of Tasmanians, and that is the truth of the matter, and you are absolutely despicable, when there are more crucial points that need to be dealt with. People's lives are at risk in Tasmania, and here we are talking about a stadium that, quite frankly, we cannot afford. We cannot afford it when people's health is at risk, when teachers need a pay rise and when we have ramping going on like there's no tomorrow. This is absolutely disgusting, and you're rubbing into the face of Tasmania some new, you-beaut stadium that has some automatic roof on it! What planet are you on, Rockliff?

I can tell you. Here' a go for you. Try it, Rockliff: come on, Rocky, stick your chest out; let's see what you've got. I can tell you, instead we could have $375 million to spend on helping us lift our literacy rates, reduce our elective surgery times, and seal and resurface our roads. And they say, 'Give us a stadium or we'll shoot.' I say to you, Rocky: tell them to pull the God damned trigger and try their luck. Go on Rocky; stick your chest out.

Carol Brown (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party, Assistant Minister for Infrastructure and Transport) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

At the outset I would like to put on record our support for a Tasmanian AFL and AFLW team. Nearly every Tasmanian would want to see the AFL be a truly national game, and having an AFL team and an AFLW team in Tasmania makes that a reality.

Having said that, I'm also on the record as asking, why is it that Tasmania somehow has to jump through hoops and other hurdles that other states haven't had to jump through? Why are conditions being put on Tasmania receiving an AFL side that other states haven't had to put up with? This is a really interesting discussion around priorities. What I have to say right here and right now is that we have Senator Lambie's network obviously opposed to the stadium, we have the federal Liberal team nearly all opposed to the stadium and I think the Greens might be opposed to the stadium as well. What that all comes down to is that we have a premier back home who isn't listening. He's not listening to his own team. He's not listening to other federal representatives. But also he's not listening to the people on the street, because nearly everyone I've spoken to has indicated that there are other things that the Tasmanian government should be looking at. There are other priorities, and they go to health, hospitals, housing and education.

My own state Labor colleagues have been calling for Premier Rockliff to change his decision to allocate $375 million to a stadium that we shouldn't have to build just so we get our Tasmanian team. They have talked about people coming up to them and asking: 'Why can't we put that money to hospitals? Why can't we put that money to housing? We're in desperate need.' In fact, Premier Rockliff is on record as asking the federal government for injections of cash to help in those other areas—just extraordinary!

So, I hope Premier Rockliff is listening to this debate and, more importantly, I hope the AFL CEO, Gillon McLachlan, is listening to this debate, because, quite frankly, they should be ashamed of themselves that they have put a condition on a Tasmanian team, hoops that no other state has had to jump through. It would be good to be able to have our young players here playing for a Tasmanian side. I just hope that Premier Rockliff listens to not only the people here but, more importantly, the community back home.

I'm also on the record saying that the Australian people elected an Albanese government on a platform of collaboration with and respect for all levels of government. Respect, in this sense, means that we will wait for a business case from the Tasmanian government before reaching a decision. When we talk about business cases, this is about a business case that needs to stack up.

Peter Whish-Wilson (Tasmania, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It's called walking both sides of the fence.

Carol Brown (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party, Assistant Minister for Infrastructure and Transport) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

No, that is completely incorrect, Senator Whish-Wilson. I have been very upfront when I've been asked about this by the media. This is the position the government has made clear from the very get-go. If there is a business case that comes forward—there isn't a business case at the moment, and nothing has been presented to this government—we have said that we will consider it on its merits. But it has to stack up. Quite frankly, Premier Rockliff should really be looking at his priorities.

Jonathon Duniam (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Environment, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am pleased to make a contribution to this debate to give context to some of the things I have said publicly in Tasmania on this issue. It is something I feel strongly about, and I don't resile from anything I've said. I, with Senator Brown and Senator Lambie, and I suspect others in this debate, support Tasmania getting a team. We deserve it. We have a fine AFL history. We've provided some of the best players in the AFL's history over many years, and that's something we could continue to do with a team of our own, and with an AFLW team.

I don't agree with the idea of the federal government funding a stadium, but I'm not going to let Senator Brown and the Australian Labor Party off the hook that easily. You can't come in and say that the Premier of Tasmania, Mr Rockliff, isn't listening and then say that you haven't made your minds up yet. The Australian government has to actually put a decision on record at some point. I look forward to the day that that happens, and going out and listening to the community is a good start to do that.

I do want to make a couple of points around the stadium and the Tasmanian government. Any day of the week I'd back Premier Rockliff over opposition leader White, because the Tasmanian Labor Party can't even come up with a position. They've got to go and have a taxpayer funded referendum to figure out whether they support the stadium! They want to spend taxpayers' money to figure out what position they should have to fund a stadium with taxpayers' money. I tell you what, at least I know where I stand. Premier Rockliff knows where he stands. The Labor Party, federally and at a state level, don't know where they stand.

I'll go back to a point that Senator Brown made which I do agree with. I know Senator Brown is a fine Tasmanian who actually does have her state's interests at heart—I know that very clearly—along with her Tasmanian colleagues. The AFL should take note: they should not treat Tasmanians as mugs. They landed an historic deal for broadcast rights—$4.5 billion. It's historic—self-described, private money. Why aren't they putting any of that into the construction of a stadium. Why aren't they being asked to fund this arrangement that would enable us to get a team? If it's so important to them, to the club presidents, for us to have a team, why don't they do something about it? Instead of asking the taxpayers of Tasmania to foot the bill—

Carol Brown (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party, Assistant Minister for Infrastructure and Transport) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Why doesn't Jeremy stand up?

Jonathon Duniam (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Environment, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I tell you what, Senator Brown, if you want to stand up and say that the Australian government won't fund a stadium, you do it today. You've got an opportunity—there's another Labor speaker—and I am looking forward to that being put on the record. But, if your view is the AFL should fund it, then make that clear in the next contribution and the Australian government won't fund it. We should be putting the asset as a united team on the AFL, as has been suggested by Senator Lambie, to fund the stadium. Let's get them to do what they're telling us we need to do and not have Tasmanians have to choose between whether they get Commonwealth funding for a hospital bed or a football stadium. Senator Lambie is right, and we should be backing this point. Gillon McLachlan and the AFL should be doing the right thing by every person who wants an AFL team. They should be funding it. That $4.5 billion sloshing around over the next few years could go to something good, like building a stadium if that's what they think we need to have.

Having said that, though, Senator Brown was also right on the fact that we are the only jurisdiction being asked to build a stadium, just to have what everyone else has. They love picking on the little state. Yes, we have 12 senators and I think it's time we made our voices heard, collectively. The AFL can no longer treat us like mugs. If they have a really good case to make, I hope they make it. I hope they can tell the Australian government why using $375 million dollars of that finite resource, taxpayers' money, is better spent on this than on anything else—than on housing, than on more roads, than on hospital beds or on sorting out the scourge of family and domestic violence. If the AFL actually wants to point to reasons for why funding a stadium with taxpayer money is more important than funding any of the things I just mentioned, I would love to hear it.

That's because when I go out and face the voters, they are not going to take the lines that the AFL might offer me. I'd love it if they had to go out and face the electors like members of parliament have to. But they don't; they can get away with seeking to blackmail our state. But we should not allow that to happen. The AFL should do the right thing and the Labor Party should make clear what their position is—state and federal.

Catryna Bilyk (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Can I say, Senator Duniam, that you and I get on pretty well. But I'm disappointed to hear you say that the state Labor Party haven't put their position or that they support it. They do not, and have been very clear for months that they don't support it.

Jonathon Duniam (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Environment, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Why do they want a referendum then?

Catryna Bilyk (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

They've been clear about it for months! You must read the newspapers; you know that they've come out and said they don't support it. Also, can I just say—and I will come to this a bit later—that we have not been asked for any money.

Jonathon Duniam (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Environment, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

So if you haven't been asked, give us your position!

Catryna Bilyk (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What I'm saying is that Minister Rockliff really couldn't organise a chook raffle. If he wants money, he has asked for money for other things.

Dean Smith (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Competition, Charities and Treasury) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Bilyk, please direct your comments through the chair.

Catryna Bilyk (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My apologies, Mr Acting Deputy President, you're correct. I should know better, but Senator Duniam knows, through you, chair, that the state Liberal Party have not actually approached us for money, I presume because they can't get a business case to together. Seriously, they couldn't run a chook raffle down there; they are hopeless! As Senator Brown said, we support—

Jonathon Duniam (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Environment, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You're open to it! You're open to funding it!

Catryna Bilyk (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I can hardly hear myself, Mr Acting Deputy President.

Dean Smith (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Competition, Charities and Treasury) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! You're quite right, Senator Bilyk. Senators on my left will be quiet. Senator Bilyk.

Catryna Bilyk (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Lambie for the MPI today because it gives us a chance to highlight those challenges that Tasmanians are facing around health, housing and education. And also in the public sector, where the workers are so overworked that they're having to go on strike because there aren't enough of them and they're not paid enough—they haven't had a wage increase in years. We have a state Liberal government that is just walking all over people, saying they want to build this amazing stadium.

I'm often one of the first to complain when Tasmania gets left off the map. We know that happens a lot. Tasmania is an AFL state and always has been. We do deserve our own AFL and AFLW teams, not just as a matter of state pride but also for the economic benefits they deliver. As Senator Duniam said, our state has produced a great slew of AFL players—names that people in here would know, not just those from Tasmania: Daryl Baldock, Peter Hudson and Ian Stewart. And if I want to mention a few other people, my husband, being a Richmond fan, would probably like me to add Matthew Richardson and Jack Riewoldt. All in all, Tasmania has actually supplied over 300 players at the top level—300. Eight games a year are already played on the AFL fixture in Tasmania, with a capacity for more people and a capacity for more games.

So, a Tasmanian team is really a no-brainer. Obviously we have to have a Tasmanian team. But we should be able to do it on a level playing field with other states, not have a gun held to our heads by the AFL. Unfortunately it wasn't initially the AFL that brought this issue up; it was the former premier who added this into the debate. Why he ever did that I don't know, but it was not part of what the AFL put to people. But we shouldn't have to jump through extra hoops. It's not right. I come in here and I argue for territory rights, because I think they should have the same rights as states. And it's the same when it comes to Tassie and footy. Why is Tassie treated like the Cinderella of the football world? I don't understand why.

We've proven that we can get people to football games. We play games already at the stadiums that already exist. There are two stadiums that exist. It's not as though we don't have a stadium. There are already two stadiums that exist. So, why does the Premier of Tasmania want to have another stadium built, at an enormous cost, as Senator Lambie and Senator Brown have said, while people are waiting to get on the housing list? We've got more people than ever on the housing list. We've had the state government say they're going to build 10,000 houses. (Time expired)

Nick McKim (Tasmania, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The Greens have long been on the record as supporting Tasmanian men's and women's teams in the AFL. Tasmania is a genuine footy state. We deserve teams in the national competitions. In fact, they will not be national competitions unless they have Tasmanian sides in them. And we thought we were on the way, because we knew that we had cleared every single hurdle, even the blatantly unfair and unreasonable ones, that were put in our path by the AFL. But then, not long ago, at five minutes to midnight, into town swans AFL CEO Mr Gill McLachlan. Having driven straight past the homeless Tasmanians sleeping in tents on the Domain, he arrogantly demanded that we spend $1 billion on a sports stadium we don't need, instead of building them the homes they so desperately need. Worse than that, he said that unless we build this sports stadium that we don't need we will not get teams in the AFL.

This is a disgrace. It's an insult to Tasmanians. It is nothing less than a blackmail of our state. He's got no right, and the AFL has no right to blackmail our state like this. Nor should the state Liberal government so weakly cower in the face of the AFL's demands, because it's all about the money for the AFL and for Mr McLachlan. You could not find a more literal example of the phrase 'moving the goalposts'. For nearly two decades the AFL has been happy for Hawthorn to play at York Park, accepting millions of dollars of the state's money to buy the matches. We've been happy for games to be played—North Melbourne, at Bellerive in the south again—millions of dollars of taxpayers money to buy those games into Tasmania. And now, at the eleventh hour, with all the ridiculous arguments against the Tasmanian team having being carefully dismantled, apparently we don't have a good-enough stadium.

Well, give us a break. They were good enough for the AFL for the last 20 years and they will be good enough for the next 20 years. The state does not have $1 billion to spend on a footy stadium we don't need while thousands languish on our public housing waiting lists and on our elective surgery waiting lists. Aboriginal Tasmanians were promised a truth and reconciliation park as the centrepiece of the Macquarie Point development. They've been working on it for years—a place of healing, a place of storytelling, of connection and of country. Then they woke up not long ago to the news that a stadium we don't even need would take priority over a reconciliation and truth park and that the park could quite literally languish in the shadow of a stadium—no consultation, no communication, just: 'Here it is; like it or lump it.' Well, news for the AFL and Mr McLachlan: Tasmanians don't like it and are not prepared to lump it. Tasmanians are literally dying while waiting for ambulances, or dying in ramped ambulances because there are no hospital beds available to save their lives. It is offensive in the extreme to spend over a billion dollars on a stadium like this that we don't need while our hospital system buckles under the strain of years of underinvestment and so many Tasmanians are sleeping rough.

Only the federal Labor government can save us from the Tasmanian Liberal government. The Greens urge Mr Albanese to listen to the calls from across the spectrum, from across the Tasmanian community, and refuse to fund a single dollar of this massive white elephant. If he does that, if he refuses to fund it, it will not be built. And I'll tell you now: if it's not built, sooner or later we will get our teams in the AFL and the AFLW but those teams must be delivered on reasonable terms, not at the expense of Tasmanians who most need help and certainly not at the expense of a pure-and-simple obscene attempt to blackmail Tasmanians into spending a billion dollars of public money nobody can afford on building a stadium nobody needs.

Dean Smith (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Competition, Charities and Treasury) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The time for the discussion has expired.