Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I refer to the notice of motion from Senator Allman-Payne agreed by the Senate on 27 October 2022 for the order for the production of documents No. 69. The senator's request relates to correspondence between the Commonwealth and the state and territory governments. The immunity claims public interest immunity over documents relating to the senator's request on the ground that disclosure of such documents would cause prejudice to the relations between the Commonwealth and the states. Specifically, disclosure would harm the Commonwealth's ongoing relationship with the state government on this and future infrastructure funding arrangements.

Penny Allman-Payne (Queensland, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I move:

That the Senate take note of the statements made by the minister regarding the choices of the Gabba as a redevelopment venue for the 2032 Brisbane Olympics and the refusal of the government to comply with two separate orders for the production of documents.

I think the minister for appearing, but I must say that I am not satisfied with the explanation provided. The argument that release of these documents would prejudice relations between the Commonwealth and the states is spurious and should be subservient to public's right to know about major projects that will affect them. The Senate rejected the claim of public interest immunity made by the minister and affirmed that 'the public has a right to know the details of and deliberations on infrastructure projects such as the Gabba stadium project and impacts on surrounding infrastructure.'

I do note that the previous order for the production of documents stated that the minister should consult with the Queensland government if a public interest immunity claim is being made and seek agreement to publish the information or invite reasoning if the state government opposes the release of the information. The minister should also have made the Senate aware that this had occurred. It seems that this has not occurred, as stipulated in the original order for the production of documents. This simply reinforces the fact that the federal and Queensland governments are not interested in letting Queenslanders know about or have a say in major infrastructure projects and the funding arrangements that support them.

This isn't the murky depths of national security policy execution. It isn't the exercise of sensitive bilateral relations between two nations. It isn't even commercial-in-confidence—not that I would be swayed by that argument if it appeared. No, this is a case of the public's right to know about a sporting infrastructure program that would level a state primary school and reshape the community all for the sake of a two-week sporting event. The Gabba stadium project was announced in April 2021. It's been almost two years since then, and yet we still have no answers regarding the future of East Brisbane State School. Construction may begin in 2025. Parents with kids starting prep now don't know if their kids will make it to year 3 without having to shift schools. They deserve clarity.

Prior to the bid, the government was talking about holding the opening ceremony at Metricon Stadium or at Queensland Sport and Athletics Centre in Nathan or building a new stadium at Albion. Why have these ideas been scrapped? There's been no public consultation on this. There's speculation in the media now that they might be looking to ring-fence this project from federal funds so that the Commonwealth can distance itself while still throwing money at the Olympics. If that's true, that's a huge admission that this is a toxic project. If the federal government knows this is a bad deal, why not share this reasoning with the people of Queensland? Better yet, it should stop protecting its mates in Queensland Labor and use the power it's got in funding the Olympics to tell them to have another look and give the community a real say.

Queensland Labor are doing everything they can to stop the community from learning about the Olympics or having any say about their own community. The community has a right to know. That's why the Senate has ordered the government to tell us what's going on. I want to thank the other parties that supported our bid to compel an explanation from the minister. As Senator McKenzie said earlier today, we don't always agree on public policy, but it's heartening to see a mutual interest in accountability in this case.

The government often talks about the need for the Brisbane 2032 Olympics to leave a positive legacy. If the federal government progresses with plans to help fund the demolition and rebuilding of the Gabba stadium as the main athletics track, the biggest legacy could be the loss of the East Brisbane State School and Raymond Park. There is a $2.5 billion projected cost for an upgrade which will only provide 8,000 extra seats, all for a two-week sporting event, which is an absolute criminal waste of public funds at a time when schools and hospitals across the country are suffering from chronic underfunding.

East Brisbane State School has over 311 students, having grown by more than 38 per cent in the last few years. It's a very diverse school, with students from 39 language groups and a specialised English program for refugee children. It is also a 123-year-old school on the Queensland Heritage Register, and it is the only public primary school in a catchment which is a rapidly growing local area. Currently, around 70 per cent of families walk, scoot or ride to school, emphasising the importance of having a well-placed and accessible school for this local community.

Thousands of residents have signed petitions, written to the government and rallied to save their school and local park. The Greens will be standing with them for a better outcome. The local community will not be letting this go. These billions of dollars could go towards proper public education funding or housing. We are calling on the government to make it a condition of any federal funding that the Queensland government drop the costly and destructive Gabba stadium project.

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Shadow Minister for Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I rise to put the opposition's full support behind this motion from the Greens. Again, it is fantastic to stand as one on the role of this chamber in our parliamentary democracy. Once again, we have seen Senator Watt have to do Minister King's dirty work and shuffle ashamedly as a Queensland senator into this chamber for an infrastructure minister who is not across her brief and who seeks to treat this chamber and the taxpayers' money that she is in charge of with disrespect. We just asked a simple question.

They are the government; they can make decisions. But they have to tell us. If they're going to actually claim public interest immunity in this place, there are certain reasons why they can claim that. They say it would prejudice the relationship between the Palaszczuk government in Queensland and the Albanese Labor government here in Canberra. I find that pretty hard to believe. One of the things under the standing orders of the Senate is that you have to write to the state you are claiming that about and ask: 'Do you have a problem with us releasing this? Do you have a problem with us talking about this?' You ask them. The minister came in and, once again, could not actually answer that question.

If you look back on their time in opposition, they crowed a number of times about how they would approach accountability and transparency. Senator Gallagher said, 'The Senate should not accept it,' and that we should 'stand up' and actually demand transparency and accountability for government. They get on the Treasury benches and within nine months they are running as far as they can from their own public decisions.

I was on ABC Brisbane this morning, talking about this exact issue. The listeners in Brisbane are absolutely incensed about this. I think earlier contributions made clear they're concerned about the impact that this redevelopment will have on their local community, they're very concerned with the lack of consultation and they're incredibly concerned about the cost. I just want to read some of the comments of ABC Brisbane listeners on this: 'Leave the Gabba alone.'; 'It would be a short-term disaster for the Olympics, especially with Cross River Rail.'; 'The Olympics needs a purpose-built facility for this major global event, not a retrofit designed to show the management of companies seeking to run both Brisbane live venues and the Gabba after the Olympics.'; and 'I don't know anyone in the proposed business plan, which speaks volumes about the fact that we're potentially committing to a project that there is potentially no business plan for.' Another caller said: 'We don't know anyone in our area in favour of the Gabba development for the games. We'll keep messages going to our reps in parliament.' It's not always friendly country for the AFL up in Queensland, but 40,000 Lions AFL members and Gabba members are absolutely deafened by the silence from the Palaszczuk government and the Albanese government. Another comment was: 'Anyone unfortunate enough to drive through the roads surrounding the Gabba should be asked their opinion. The Olympic Committee should come up with another, more feasible, stadium.'

Just on that: we know the Gabba Redevelopment wasn't part of the Olympics bid. The former coalition government had a process in place with the Palaszczuk government. We'd fund fifty-fifty of that infrastructure, and we'd have an oversight body so that we could both be assured that the public spend would be in both the state and the national interest for taxpayers, and deliver legacy projects for the people of Queensland that were great for our athletes and great for the hundreds of thousands of spectators that will come to see the games in eight years time—but that would, importantly, leave a legacy for the citizens of Queensland and the broader Australian community.

This federal Labor government cannot make a decision to save themselves. It's nine months later, and the whole process has stalled. You've got public schools concerned, parents concerned and students concerned, because Catherine King and Anika Wells can't get their act together.

Helen Polley (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Excuse me. It is very disrespectful when you don't refer to people in the other place by their correct titles, so I will remind you of that.

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Shadow Minister for Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Madam Acting Deputy President. I am absolutely respectful of the people concerned about this project in Brisbane. The quote, though, that I think really summed it up on ABC Brisbane this morning was: 'I've previously voted Labor at a state level in Queensland, but if the Gabba construction goes ahead my vote will go elsewhere. They need to listen to the people.'

Senator Chisholm, this is your home state, this is your Labor state government and this is your federal Labor government. I don't blame the Palaszczuk government. I blame federal Labor for stalling this and for the disrespect they've treated the Senate with by coming in and saying, 'We don't have to actually give you any information on this particular project.' Well, it turns out you do, because it's going to cost the federal taxpayer billions of dollars. People don't feel they're being consulted. They're concerned about a Gabba Redevelopment that wasn't even part of the Olympics bid.

What's concerning for the international community that I've been speaking to about the Olympics build isn't the Gabba Redevelopment; it's how we get hundreds of thousands of spectators out to events. There are road and rail projects that need to be built for these games to be successful, and we want them to be successful. But they haven't even been started. There's an eight-year lead time. They need to be planned. They need to be tendered. There needs to be construction. It's going to look like Rio if you don't get your act together.

Paul Scarr (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I rise to support Senator Allman-Payne in her courageous efforts to try to get more information in relation to what's happening in relation to the Gabba Redevelopment proposal. It is astounding, absolutely astounding, that the minister attends here today and says that because it may damage relationships between the federal and state governments he cannot give us any information. They haven't even asked them! Why don't they pick up the phone and ask Premier Palaszczuk: 'Do you mind? The Senate is keen to get this information. We think there should be transparency and we think that people have a right to know. Do you mind if we hand this information over to the Senate in accordance with the resolution of the Senate, the house of review?'

They didn't even ask; they didn't even pick up the phone and ask! How do they know it's going to damage relationships when they don't even ask? Maybe they thought they'd get an answer they didn't want, so they didn't ask? They didn't ask so that they could just come in and glibly claim public interest immunity. Maybe that was the whole strategy all along: don't ask the question if you think you might get a answer you don't want. It's absolutely shameful!

I had the pleasure of taking my good friend Senator Ruston for a walk around the Gabba, and we had a look at the East Brisbane State School. This is one of the oldest state schools in my home state of Queensland, constructed in 1899. It is actually on the Queensland Heritage Register. You can have a look; anyone here, I'll give you the reference number. Go to the Queensland Heritage Register, 601476—that's the registration number on the Queensland Heritage Register. Why is it on the register? Because the place is considered to have great significance with respect to the development of Brisbane. Why is it on the register? Because of its aesthetic value. If you see the red-brick building, which was done in an arts and crafts fashion, it is a beautiful, beautiful school in the middle of a beautiful community.

The parents in that community want answers. They want answers! What is going to happen to their school? It is such an important part of their community. For those of us who watch the track record of the Labor government in Queensland carefully, their first estimate with respect to the Gabba Redevelopment—which would abolish this school—was $1 billion. What you get for $1 billion? You get 8,000 additional seats. By my maths, that's $120,000 per seat. Does that make sense to anyone in this place? That was their first estimate. The estimate has now gone up. We're up now to about $2.5 billion, which is 2½ times more—no wonder they won't show us the documents. If I were sitting on that side of the chamber, I'd be saying, 'How do you expect me to sign up to 50 per cent of the funding for this redevelopment when the cost has gone from $1 billion to $2.5 billion in less than 18 months?' It's astounding.

The people of Queensland deserve to have all the information in relation to this proposal. There are parents and their children in that community today who are concerned about the future of their school. There are people, and I've spoken to them, who went to that school decades ago, and they've raised concerns directly with me about what's going to happen to that school. It is part of Queensland's heritage; it is on the Queensland Heritage Register, and the people of Queensland deserve answers—not flimsy claims of public interest immunity which are not in the public interest of that local community in East Brisbane and not in the public interest of the people of Queensland, who deserve open government and transparency.

Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Health and Aged Care) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Sadly, this is the second time I have stood here today to draw to the attention of the people who are listening and of the people who, hopefully, will be reading the contributions made by my colleagues and by senators from the Greens in relation to the absolute refusal of this government to be transparent about the expenditure of taxpayers' money.

All we want to know is what the government's intentions are in relation to the funding of infrastructure for the 2032 Olympic Games. Australians are so proud of our sporting culture. We are so proud of our sporting reputation. And we're so proud of the fact that, invariably, when we put on international sporting events, we are heralded around the world as one of the best when it comes to putting on these events.

It is a great deal of concern to us, and Senator McKenzie and I have been speaking about this for some time now, that at this stage, only nine years out—I know that sounds like a long time. But it's not a very long time when you're building the kind of infrastructure and event that the Olympic Games will need to be, to showcase Australia at its best and enable our athletes to stand proud on the international sporting stage for Australia.

We want to know why this government will not provide us, this parliament, and the Australian public with assurances that they have everything in hand. As you just heard from Senator McKenzie and Senator Scarr, there are a whole heap of things that seem to be floating around in the media, about discussions between the federal government and the state government of Queensland, that don't seem to be part of any agreements officially struck in relation to our hosting agreement for the 2032 Olympic Games.

When we were in government, we were very clear about the decision that we would put in place a fifty-fifty funding agreement based on the IOC host agreement for infrastructure build. As Senator McKenzie said, the Gabba redevelopment was not contingent on that host agreement, yet this has been put into the public narrative as if it somehow was. We said we wanted an independent joint oversight authority for overseeing delivery of the infrastructure.

Successive governments in this place have always placed a great deal of importance on Infrastructure Australia, a body that has oversight of the expenditure of hundreds of millions and billions of dollars of Australian taxpayers' money. We've always considered, in this place, that this was an important thing to do. That was why we put in to say that our fifty-fifty agreement to funding with the Queensland government would be contingent on the establishment of such an authority.

I do not understand why the current government will not tell us whether they will establish that authority and provide the level of oversight that taxpayers of Australia, rightly, should expect for expenditure of their money, why they won't tell us what the funding agreement is between the Commonwealth and the state government of Queensland and why they won't tell us what is included in that agreement. It comes as a great deal of concern—following what has not been the greatest reputation of a government in Australia around jobs for the mates, payments to unions, allocation of deals without transparency and allegations of corruption in the behaviour of the Queensland government. You would think that this government—the current Albanese Labor federal government—would be very concerned about handing over some sort of blank cheque to the Queensland government.

I very much hope that they're not going to do that, and I very much hope that they're going to stick to the same sort of accountability, governance and transparency measures that we have come to expect. Handing over a blank cheque—or, for that matter, refusing to reveal what is actually going on with these agreements—leaves us with two suggestions and assumptions to make from this.

One assumption is that they are failing to reach an agreement with the Queensland government—that would be a very serious concern to Australians because it jeopardises our ability to put on the games. I think Senator McKenzie's been on the public record as saying that we need to make sure these games are the best games ever, because the last thing we want to see happen is a fight between the Commonwealth and the Queensland government and we end up with a Rio type games. We can do so much better than that. We deserve to deliver for the Australian public so much more than that. The refusal of this government to provide any information around this particular arrangement leaves us with a great deal of concern.

The other obvious assumption one could jump to, if it's not that they haven't been able to strike a deal, is that they have struck a deal but they just don't want to tell us about it. One would suggest that if they'd struck a really good deal they probably would want to tell us about it. As we saw with the request for information in relation to correspondence between the South Australian and Commonwealth governments about the infrastructure build in my home state of South Australia, the minister comes in here and drops a public interest immunity claim—without any justification as to why he believes the revealing of this particular information is not in the public interest.

Once again I'll put on the record that we absolutely support the value of public interest immunity claims, as they are a mechanism by which we can protect commercial-in-confidence information and other things, such as relationships. But absolutely no evidence has been provided by this government or by this minister as to why their relationship with the Queensland government would be damaged by the release of this information. So we are absolutely supportive of the motion that has been moved by the Greens, demanding that this government come clean with this information.

As Senator Scarr said, we were told initially that the Gabba development was going to be $1 billion, notwithstanding the fact that the IOC hosting agreement did not require the Gabba as part of the infrastructure build for the games. My understanding was that Suncorp Stadium was supposed to be the stadium that is going to host the opening and closing ceremonies. Then, in the blink of an eye, it's now $2.5 billion. Who's conning who here? Is this just a wonderful cash grab by Premier Palaszczuk to see if she can sucker this government into providing Australian taxpayer funds to upgrade a facility that is not required for the delivery of the games?

I suppose the thing that remains the most concerning to me is that we are talking about billions and billions of dollars, and Australia's reputation as one of the best hosts, if not the best host, of international sporting events in the world is being jeopardised by a lack of transparency from this government. So if it does not seem like a reasonable thing that everybody in this chamber and the Australian public have the right to know how billions of their dollars are going to be spent, I think that just shows great contempt by this government for this place and for the people of Australia.

We're sent here to do a really, really important role. I can remember being lectured day after day after day by those opposite, when we were sitting on that side, any time we came in here and tried to suggest that there was some piece of information that shouldn't be released. I certainly know I always used to try and make sure I had a very sound reason behind why I wasn't releasing a piece of information. But they're just saying, with complete contempt and arrogance, 'We're not going to give you anything at all about spending billions of Australian taxpayers' dollars, but we're also not even going to tell you why.' It's just apparently going to damage the relationship between a Labor federal government and a Labor state government! I just cannot understand how the minister, who is clearly under instructions from the substantial minister for infrastructure, in the other place, can just come in here, dump this and run.

Clearly, there is a level of transparency and accountability that is missing from this government, which is so extraordinarily hypocritical when you consider that was the mantra that it took to the Australian public when it sought to be elected by the Australian public. It seems to me this government is happy to make all the headlines, all the promises and all the nice lines, and tell the Australian public everything they want to hear—that it is going to do everything that the Australian public, rightly, should expect them to do. But, when it comes to delivering, they say, 'Sorry, we won't tell you anything about it,' or maybe, 'We just won't do it.'

I would say to those opposite: have a very serious think, because we're going to keep coming back to this. And I thank the Greens, because obviously they are equally as interested in transparency as we are. We're going to keep coming back into this chamber and using the power of this chamber to demand transparency from this government, the executive government of this country, on the decisions it makes that affect Australian lives and the expenditure of Australian taxpayers' hard-earned funds. We'll keep doing that, and, if you want to keep being contemptuous towards the Australian public by refusing to answer, we'll keep telling them that you are contemptuous.

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I rise to make a contribution to this important debate to take note of the minister's response—or, effectively, nonresponse—to the order for the production of documents in relation to the Gabba project. Senator Allman-Payne raised this order for the production of documents specifically in relation to the school, but I think constituents in Senator Scarr's state of Queensland have genuine cause to be concerned about this circumstance. I quote the words of Minister Grace Grace describing the Gabba project, saying:

We do not know the footprint, we do not know the design, we have a schematic sketch, we are still stabbing in the dark.

I was the Minister for Sport when this project was sprung on the previous coalition government. Only a few days after received a list of proposed projects that the government wanted funding for for the Olympic bid, this sudden announcement of the Gabba project appeared, and that's exactly why the then government said, 'We're prepared to support a fifty-fifty funding bill for the 2032 Olympics and Paralympics, but on the condition that there is a process of discipline put in place to provide oversight to protect taxpayers in the expenditure of billions of dollars.' We did that so the Commonwealth would have a say as part of that process.

As has been said by my colleagues, there's been no indication whether the current government intends to continue with what was the core element of that fifty-fifty deal—that there would be a body in place to provide the Commonwealth and the state, but particularly the Commonwealth, some protection for taxpayers' funds in the planning and construction of those projects. It's a very, very sensible discipline to be put in place to protect Australian taxpayers in the expenditure of billions of dollars. I suspect the real reason this government doesn't want to provide this information: it's not to protect the relationship between the Australian government and the Queensland government but to protect both governments from embarrassment at the situation that exists right now.

Dean Smith (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Competition, Charities and Treasury) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The time for debate has expired.

Question agreed to.