Jane Hume (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Treasurer, Senator Gallagher. Minister, how will the government's new doubling of the super tax treat unrealised capital gains?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am surprised that those opposite have decided to oppose this modest increase or reduction in tax concessions—a modest $2 billion. I know you'd like to flag it as something other than what it is, but the 0.5 per cent of Australians who are fortunate enough to have balances over $3 million will pay a still concessional rate of tax, at 30 per cent, on their earnings in a year, and it will raise $2 billion when fully operational in three years time, after we've had another election.

On the question—thank you, Senator Scarr, for shouting across the chamber—the simplest and least-cost approach is to apply the tax on the growth of an individual's balance over the year. This approach, recommended by Treasury, includes assessing unrealised capital gains. It applies prospectively. Alternative approaches would be very costly for super funds, which would come at the expense of all members, not just those with high balances. Trustees already calculate the value of their fund each year and submit it to the tax office, which will enable the ATO to determine liability. We believe this approach strikes the right balance between simplicity and ensuring that the tax can be applied across the system to improve the sustainability of this system.

This is what's different between when you were in government and now, when we are in government as the responsible economic and fiscal managers of this budget. You went after robodebt. You went after people with nothing. You went after people who didn't even owe you money. That's what you did. That was the approach. You knew it was illegal. You went after them, and they didn't even owe you money. This is a modest change to the 0.5 per cent of Australians who have a high $3 million— (Time expired)

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Scarr!

Honourable senators interjecting—

I haven't called you yet, Senator Hume. Interjections are disorderly, and continuing to repeat them and yelling out across the chamber, and from the back of the chamber, is incredibly disorderly.

Jane Hume (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, how will the government's new doubling of the super tax apply to a self-funded retiree in the drawdown phase with a self-managed super fund that owns a commercial property that was valued at $2.5 million in 2024-25 and then valued at $3.1 million in 2025-26 but received a commercial rent of $80,000, also in that year?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I might take the detail of that question on notice.

Paul Scarr (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Oh!

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Well, if you're serious about getting an answer on that—I mean, if I'm going to come in here and give individual superannuation advice to individual accounts that are given to me, is that where we're going? It is a modest change. The tax will be paid on earnings in a year. It will be taxed on earnings in a year. The tax office will undertake those assessments, as they currently do, and as Senator Hume knows—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Minister. Senator Hume?

Jane Hume (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Can I just clarify that answer please, Madam President?

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Hume, why are you on your feet? Do you have a point of order?

Jane Hume (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Point of order: I'd just like a clarification from the minister.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That's not a point of order. Thank you, Senator Hume.

Jane Hume (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I don't understand.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Hume, the minister—

Senator Hume, this is not a—

Please resume your seat.

Government senators interjecting—

Order on my right! When senators get to their feet to ask a point of order and I rule it either in order or out of order, that is the end of the matter. It's not an option to continue to argue with me. Minister, please continue.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you. I've taken the substantive question on notice because of the detail of the question. I'm not here to give individual superannuation advice.

Jane Hume (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Really?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'm not. You've given me a cameo. I've taken that on notice. I will come back to you with an answer on it. There are liquidity requirements for those in SMSFs— (Time expired.)

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Hume, a second supplementary question.

Jane Hume (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Can the minister point to any other example of unrealised capital gains being used in the Commonwealth tax system or, indeed, in any other jurisdiction? And can you rule out applying taxes to unrealised capital gains elsewhere in the tax system, such as onto the family home, or to any other assets currently subject to capital gains tax?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

We've made clear what the change is. We've been upfront with the Australian people about what that change is. It relates to high-income superannuation accounts with more than $3 million in them. That is the government's announcement. Don't try to run your fear campaign, your scare campaign, saying it's everything other than it is.

The Prime Minister has made clear what the changes are and the limit to those changes. That was the policy that we announced last year—last week, sorry.

Hon. Senators:

Honourable senators interjecting—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, please resume your seat. Order on my left, and my right. Thank you. Minister, please continue.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Is this the hill you're going to die on after you pursued thousands of Australians for robodebt? That is how you tried to repair the budget. The hill you're going to die on is this while you are the party of robodebt. Those vulnerable Australians that you harassed— (Time expired.)