Slade Brockman (WA, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Treasurer, Senator Gallagher. Yesterday the Assistant Treasurer could not rule out that if a family farm is an asset in a self-managed super fund the owners could be forced to pay tax on that farm if it increased in value during a particular financial year. Minister, can you confirm that your government is proposing to tax super fund assets such as the family farm where there has only been an increase in its value on paper?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Brockman for the question. I've answered this a number of times this week.

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting—

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, I have. You have asked the same question a number of times.

Opposition senators interjecting—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister Gallagher, please resume your seat.

Senator Watt! I've just sat the minister down because there are too many interjections. Minister, please continue.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you. Yes, I have been asked this. I've been asked it in various ways.

Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Health and Aged Care) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

We've asked but you haven't answered.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, I have. Superannuation is based on individual accounts. If your account has more than $3 million in it, of which we know is a very small part of the overall numbers of superannuation accounts, then we are increasing or decreasing the concessional arrangements on those high balance accounts, right? So if you have an asset in your super account, you are still required, under the prudential arrangements, to have a diversified portfolio, and you earn income that tips you over the $3 million threshold, then you will pay a concessional rate of 30 per cent instead of 15 per cent on the earnings over $3 million.

This would cover people who have a farm as part of their asset or it might include other property that they might have in their super funds. That is the answer I give. That is the answer I've given all week. And that is the position we've taken through these super changes. But I would note, again, that the average super balance in this country is $150,000. To have a dignified retirement is in the order of $565,000. That is what superannuation is for, to allow for a dignified retirement. This is making a modest change— (Time expired)

Honourable senators interjecting—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'm going to wait for quiet. I have the senator on his feet. Senator Brockman, first supplementary.

Slade Brockman (WA, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

() (): Thank you, Minister, for that one minute and 30-second yes. The Assistant Treasurer recently likened the $3 trillion in superannuation funds in Australia as honey, which he wants to spread around for the good of the hive. Do you believe that accounts are the property of the individual account holder or do you agree with the Assistant Treasurer that they are a honeypot for the government— (Time expired)

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

HER (—) (): I think I got the gist of it. Superannuation—

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It's not the gist, it's people's money!

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Shadow Minister for Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Honestly, if you had been able to choose—

Government senators interjecting—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, please resume your seat. I'm going to wait until the interjections have stopped, from both sides of the chamber. Minister, please continue.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you. Superannuation accounts are individual accounts owned by individual members, which are subject to taxation as they currently are. Superannuation currently has tax arrangements that apply to it. The change that we are making is for a very small amount of people who are fortunate enough to have more than $3 million in their accounts that they pay a concessional rate of 30 per cent on earnings over $3 million. It's a very modest change to the arrangements that have been put in place. As people in this place know, superannuation is based on individual accounts.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Birmingham, on a point of order?

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The minister spent 95 per cent of her answer responding to, really, the primary question still and the general thesis around the government's superannuation changes. On relevance: the supplementary question went specifically to the words of the Assistant Treasurer, which she should reject, that it is not a honeypot to be spread around the nation.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I understand the question, it did have the honey definition in it. The senator was also asked directly if superannuation accounts were individual, so I believe she's being relevant, but I will continue to listen. Minister? You've finished. Senator Brockman, a second supplementary?

Slade Brockman (WA, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, yesterday in question time, when asked to categorically rule out any further changes to the superannuation taxation system in this parliament, you said, 'The government has made it clear this is the only change to superannuation taxation during this term.' Considering during the 2022 election campaign Mr Albanese said, 'We've said we have no intention of making any changes to super,' how can the Australian people trust the commitment you gave yesterday?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My answer yesterday was correct, and I stand by that answer. I would say that the Australian people realise that they have a government that's making responsible and difficult decisions after we inherited a budget mess from those opposite—that is what the Australian people think. They want a government that shows up, that deals with the challenges, that explains the decisions we take and why we take them. We're taking them because we've got a $50 billion structural budget problem in this country. We have $1 trillion in debt that was the debt that was doubled before the pandemic hit. We've got increasing pressures on our budget, including in national security and defence, in health and in hospitals and in aged care. In all of those areas we have increasing pressures. Unlike you, we don't think the budget is this magic pudding that you can use for yourselves without explaining it. (Time expired)

Hon. Senators:

Honourable senators interjecting—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order!