Matt O'Sullivan (WA, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

' SULLIVAN (—) (): My question is to the Minister representing the Treasurer, Senator Gallagher. On Monday this week, in response to a question from Senator Bragg, you said:

Because of the nature of defined benefits, they will be included in the scheme, and we announced that when we announced the measure. … We expect that the changes will definitely cover defined benefit schemes, and there are a couple of areas that we are going to consult on and that we want some industry advice on.

Can the minister confirm that veterans who are eligible to access a defined benefit scheme will be caught up in Labor's new super tax?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Because I've been dealing with these questions all week, I would point out to the chamber that the coalition closed the defined benefit superannuation scheme for the military in 2015, but we have been clear that defined benefit schemes will be part of this change. We said that when we announced it, and we will consult with the sector on implementation.

I welcome the opportunity to go through it, and I might start with the member for Hume's comments which relate to high-balance accounts back in 2016. He said:

Well, it's very simple … We need a fairer superannuation system which has integrity, and this means that those of us who can afford to pay, should be paying our fair share.

He said the situation we had was:

Some people were contributing millions of dollars into super and it's totally inappropriate that someone who's contributed millions and millions of dollars continues to get—

fifteen per cent concessions.

An honourable senator: Who said that?

That was the member for Hume in 2016, and now we've got a sensible, modest, responsible change that deals with fairness and equity in the superannuation system. Those opposite, the party of the member for Hume, all of a sudden are going to die on a hill for a less concessional arrangement for the 0.5 per cent of people who are fortunate enough to have more than $3 million in their super accounts.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Hume!

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That is the state of the Liberal Party: as we work towards some sensible budget repair, some modest changes, the 'no-alition' are making themselves irrelevant, saying no. (Time expired)

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator Hume, your constant interjections are disorderly, and I called you to order a number of times. I expect you to come to order. Senator O'Sullivan, first supplementary?

Matt O'Sullivan (WA, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, given your answer, will you rule out applying the tax to veterans who accessed the defined benefit scheme prior to 2015?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The policy that we've announced and that will be reflected in the budget applies to the 0.5 per cent of people who have more than $3 million in their superannuation account. Now, we are looking at how we apply it to defined benefit schemes.

H onourable senators interjecting—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order!

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

We are looking at how we do it.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, please resume your seat. Senator Wong and others! Minister, please continue.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I said earlier this week and as I've just repeated, we've been clear that we want this to apply to defined benefit schemes as well. If you are fortunate enough to have $3 million in your super account, we think that applying a less concessional arrangement—still highly concessional but just less than is currently available, so 30 per cent instead of 15—to raise a very modest $2 billion when it's fully operational, to contribute to budget repair— (Time expired)

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator O'Sullivan, second supplementary?

Matt O'Sullivan (WA, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you for that very revealing answer. Why is Labor, therefore, going after veterans and attempting to tax them on earnings that they won't receive until they retire?

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'm waiting for order before I call the minister, Senator Wong.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The average super balance in this country is $150,000. That is the average super balance in this country. For women it is less than that: the average superannuation balance is $140,000.

Hon. Senators:

Honourable senators interjecting—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, please resume your seat. Order!

Senator Wong!

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

We are not going after anyone. We are implementing a sensible change.

Opposition senators interjecting—

I wish you got so exercised about all the other issues facing the country. The state of the budget that we inherited, for example, might be one of them—helping fund some of those pressures that we've inherited, with all of those zombie measures that you left there for years propping up your budget, your terminating measures. What about energy bill relief? Why didn't you care about that? You voted no. We were here—

Honourable senators interjecting—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, please resume your seat.

Honourable senators interjecting—

Order! Order! Order! Order! Order! Minister Gallagher, this is the second time this week that this chamber has been so disorderly you have not heard me say, 'Order!' a number of times. It's question time. It is disorderly and disrespectful to continue to call out and to call out so loudly that my saying, 'Order!' is drowned out. It's question time. I expect senators to respect that.