James Paterson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Cyber Security) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Home Affairs and Minister for Cyber Security, Senator Watt. The European Union, Canada, the United States and other jurisdictions have banned TikTok on government devices because they regard the risk posed by the app as unacceptable. Overnight the director of the FBI reaffirmed the serious threat of backdoor espionage and interference from TikTok. Of 53 Australian government departments and agencies who responded, only 25—less than half—confirmed an outright ban. Why has the Albanese government not followed our like-minded partners and banned the app on government devices?

Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Paterson. I recognise that Senator Paterson is someone here who does take issues of cybersecurity and national security seriously, but I can't help noticing that he and all of his colleagues have taken a lot more interest in these issues since they entered opposition than they ever did when they were in power and had the opportunity to do so. I also observe that poor old Senator Rennick up the back there never seems to get a question. Maybe one day he'll get the opportunity to ask questions as well.

The fact is that since our government, the Albanese government, has been in power we have absolutely lifted the game of the Australian government when it comes to cybersecurity, moving beyond the derelict system that was left behind by the former government. The Albanese government is committed to ensuring all Australians are aware of the challenges of protecting themselves online.

As I say, all the people who now have all the questions in world had ample opportunity to do something about this issue themselves as members of a nearly 10-year-old government that ended only a few months ago. It wasn't that long ago that Senator Paterson was asking me questions about the cameras that are in departmental buildings—again, something that the former government not only could have done something about but maybe could have stopped happening in the first place. I welcome this newfound interest in these issues from members of the opposition, including Senator Paterson, and I would welcome the support of the opposition for the reforms that this government is putting in place—

James Paterson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Cyber Security) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Point of order on relevance, Madam President: my question was on TikTok. We're one minute and 30 seconds into the minister's answer, and the word 'TikTok' has not passed his lips.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am going to direct the minister to the question, but I'll go to Senator Wong.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

If you've made the order, there's no point.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, Senator Paterson asked specific questions about government departments in relation to TikTok, and I need you to be relevant to that question.

Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I think Senator Paterson is aware, the Minister for Home Affairs is conducting a review of all social media platforms, and the government will consider the recommendations of that review—a review, I might say, that never occurred under the former government. The concerns regarding TikTok are not new, and they've been public for some time. Again, something could have been done about this by the former government if they'd thought it was actually a concern. But, as I said, the minister is conducting this review. The Attorney-General has also requested advice on whether a government-wide ban is required to address projected security risks. (Time expired)

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Paterson, first supplementary?

James Paterson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Cyber Security) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

In July last year TikTok Australia first admitted in a letter to me that Australian TikTok user data could be accessed in China. In December the company admitted to using the app to spy on journalists. Why has the Albanese government failed to act for eight months on this important cybersecurity matter?

Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Seriously, why have we not acted within eight months when you were part of a government that was in power for nearly 10 years? Why were you asleep at the wheel on these issues, amongst everything else, for nearly eight years?

Hon. Senators:

Honourable senators interjecting—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Watt, please resume your seat. Order! Senator Paterson is entitled to have his question answered, and I would ask you on my left, in particular, to respect that and be quiet.

Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Unlike the succession of failed former coalition governments, the Albanese Labor government is taking a considered, deliberate approach to better regulating how digital platforms access and store consumer information. The Minister for Home Affairs has asked her department to consider all options to address data access and usage concerns as they relate to TikTok and other social media companies. I don't recall the former government ever doing that, but this minister in this government has done so. The concerns about the security of Australians' data on social media are well known, and they are not limited to TikTok. Current policy on legislative settings do not give Australians the information or the confidence that their personal data is being protected and stored securely, and we're doing something about it. (Time expired)

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Paterson, final supplementary?

James Paterson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Cyber Security) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Will the minister commit to a time frame to ban TikTok from government devices?

Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I said, the minister is undertaking that review, but I can guarantee that this government will do something about this well within the nearly 10-year time line that your government sat on its hands and did nothing about these things.

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You're now misleading the Senate!

Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I truly hope that we are in power for that sort of length of time, but, however long it takes, we will get this done. We've already started work on it within our first 12 months in office, as opposed to the former government which did absolutely nothing for nearly 10 years and all of a sudden has become wise after the fact. If only they'd had this insight when they were in government—if only. But 10 years went by, nothing was done, and now, yet again, it's a mess that we have to clean up. I have every confidence that this minister in this government will take action as quickly as possible to address these issues. The reviews are underway. The Attorney-General is seeking advice. These are things that never occurred under the former government. We take national security seriously, we take cybersecurity seriously, and that's why we're acting on it.