David Shoebridge (NSW, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to Minister Wong in her capacity representing the Prime Minister. Minister, I'm asking this question on behalf of Australia but also Julian Assange's father, John Shipton, who went to San Diego in mid-March hoping to hear that his son would be released. Did the Prime Minister raise the ongoing prosecution and detention of Julian Assange with President Biden during their meeting on 14 March this year?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Shoebridge for his question. I'd make a few points about Mr Assange. I understand that there is strong interest in the case, that there is a depth of community sentiment, and we have made clear publicly, before the election and since, that the government's view is that Mr Assange's case has dragged on too long and should be brought to a close. It is not generally my practice to give chapter and verse of everything that is said in every diplomatic communication. But in the interests of transparency on this issue I have said that I have personally expressed this view—the view that Mr Assange's case has dragged on long enough and should be brought to a close—to the government of the United States and the government of the United Kingdom, and I will continue to do so.

The Prime Minister has also made clear in the parliament, and I'd refer you to his answers, that he has raised this case at the appropriate levels. What I would say is this—and you would know this, Senator Shoebridge, as a lawyer. We are not able, as an Australian government, to intervene in another country's legal or court processes.

Hon. Senators:

Honourable senators interjecting—

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Well, it is true. You would understand—

Senator Shoebridge, there is a thing called the rule of law. There is a principle called the separation of powers. No amount of bellowing at me from that end of the chamber is going to change the fact that a court has to determine the legal process. So, we can raise these issues, as I have and as the Prime Minister has. But we are not able to alter the judicial processes of another country.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator Wong, please resume your seat. Senator Whish-Wilson, those comments are disrespectful and disorderly, and I would ask you not to call out.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Whish-Wilson, how would you propose that we do that? Send the Australian Army into a court? I mean, really.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Whish-Wilson?

Peter Whish-Wilson (Tasmania, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Seeing as I was asked a direct question, I can respond—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Whish-Wilson, please resume your seat. Senator Shoebridge, a first supplementary?

David Shoebridge (NSW, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, the Prime Minister has said—and I think you have too—'enough is enough', and the Prime Minister said he wants a resolution of this matter but that this, to use his words, requires 'quiet diplomacy'. How could a conversation between resident Biden, PM Albanese and PM Sunak, which he was in just two weeks ago, not be the most important kind of quiet diplomacy to use to free Julian Assange? And why wasn't it used?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That isn't what I said, and you've made a set of assertions that may or may not be true. I would again say that we have at the Prime Minister's level and at foreign minister level been very clear in our views that this matter has dragged on too long and it should be brought to a close. But I again make the point that there is a legal process which is in accordance with the tradition of the separation of powers, which I regard as an important part of democracy. It is not something that the Australian government can resolve. Having said that, it is appropriate—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Whish-Wilson, I called you to order twice. I expect you to come to order. Minister, did you wish to continue?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

We are doing what we can between government and government, but there are limits to what that diplomacy can achieve, until— (Time expired)

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Shoebridge, a second supplementary?

David Shoebridge (NSW, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is a simple question, Minister, that Julian Assange's family are asking and that as Australian citizens they deserve an answer to. Did their Prime Minister ask President Biden to drop the United States' prosecution and allow Julian to come home when they met just a few short weeks ago? Please answer the question.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The Prime Minister has made his views clear about this matter having dragged on too long. But I again would make this point: whilst we are doing what we can between government and government, there are limits until Mr Assange has concluded the legal processes.

Janet Rice (Victoria, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

He's a political prisoner.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

No, there are legal processes which are still on foot, which cannot—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order, Senator Rice!

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I would also—

The:

Minister, please resume your seat. Senator Shoebridge?

David Shoebridge (NSW, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, President. My point of order is on relevance. My question was about a meeting between the President and the Prime Minister—not about court proceedings but about a meeting between the President and the Prime Minister—and the minister is refusing to address it.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Shoebridge. I believe the minister is being relevant to your question.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I did respond to it. I'm actually trying to be helpful. If you perhaps listened to what I'm saying, Senator Shoebridge, what I'm saying to you is that, while soever there are legal proceedings on foot, it is very difficult for there to be resolution between governments. I think that is an observation of fact.

David Shoebridge (NSW, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That is plain rubbish, and you know it.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Well, there are some countries where—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, please resume your seat. Senator Shoebridge, this is not a debate.

Senator Shoebridge, order!

Honourable senators interjecting—

Order on my left and my right. I've called you to order. This is not an opportunity to debate. There are other opportunities during our sitting for you to make whatever comments you want. You asked the question and you listen with respect.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I would also make the point, because the senator mentioned Mr Assange's family, that I have engaged with his family.