Sarah Henderson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Education) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Finance, Senator Gallagher. Minister, on 7 June 2023, in an interview on ABC RN Breakfast, journalist Hamish Macdonald put the following statement to you:

… David Sharaz, said, "I've got a friend in Labor, Katy Gallagher".

Mr Macdonald asked you if Mr Sharaz was a friend. You responded:

… he was a journalist here in Canberra when I was Chief Minister, so I knew him. But I have nothing further to add.

Minister, do you or did you ever have a friendship with Mr Sharaz, and, if so, what is or was the extent of this friendship?

Government Senators:

Government senators interjecting—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Before I call the minister, I'm going to ask for order on my right. Minister Gallagher.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I had a professional relationship with Mr Sharaz, as I presume many in this place did, because he worked in this place as well for some time. That is the extent of it. In terms of where this is getting to now, I would appreciate it if people would think about the impact that it's having on women. I have been inundated with calls from women's organisations and from women themselves who are concerned about how this debate is going to impact on women making choices about their own safety. You may be able to live with your conscience on that, but I can't live with mine. So my responsibility is to stand up and say—I'm happy to answer questions like Ms Henderson has asked—it was a professional relationship with a journalist that I knew when I was in the ACT, and I came across him when he was working here when I moved up to the Senate. That is the extent of that. I expect that relationship exists for a number of senators around this place.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Henderson, first supplementary?

Sarah Henderson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Education) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, it was reported by radio broadcaster Ray Hadley on Friday 9 June 2023 that you were invited to Mr Sharaz's first wedding in 2019. Minister, were you invited to the wedding?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I didn't recall that until I heard it reported, and I had to ask the people that I worked with at the time. I think I was Chief Minister. I got a lot of invitations to a lot of things. Some I was able to go to and others I wasn't, and I didn't attend that one. The invitation was declined.

Hon. Senators:

Honourable senators interjecting—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator Henderson.

Sarah Henderson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Education) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Just on a point of order, President, the question was: were you invited? I'm just asking if the minister could please indicate that.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That is not a point of order. The minister answered that. Senator Wong.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

She went directly to that.

Government senators interjecting—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order on my right! This is question time. Senators are entitled to ask questions which you may or may not think are relevant. They are relevant to them, and they are entitled to be asked in silence.

Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Says a lot about them.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Watt! Order! Senator Henderson, second supplementary?

Sarah Henderson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Education) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, in text messages that have been released and reported in the Australian on 7 June 2023 Mr Sharaz describes you as an old friend. Minister, have you ever invited Mr Sharaz to a personal event or personal celebration?

Government senators interjecti ng—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order on my right. I should not have to keep calling out for order. Minister Wong.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I take a point of order, President. In the interests of trying to deal appropriately with this, we have not taken points of order as to whether the questions are in order. I make the point that that question about friendship neither relates to the minister's portfolio nor to a previous statement. I again raise my concern from yesterday, and I ask people to reflect upon whether the use of private text messages of an alleged survivor is an ethical thing to use to ask questions in this place, particularly given what the DPP has said about her state of mind.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Birmingham?

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

President, just on the point of order: Senator Wong's premise that the question is not based upon public statements is incorrect. The primary question was based upon public statements made by the minister during an interview on Radio National Breakfast, and the supplementary questions follow from those public statements in that primary question.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you. Because it's quite an unusual question I will seek advice from the Clerk. I am advised, and I urge senators to remember the primary question. The view is that we have drifted quite a way from the primary question, so I invite the minister to answer the second supplementary to any extent she wishes to.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Can Senator Henderson just repeat it?

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Sure. Before I call Senator Henderson, I'm going to ask those on my right in particular to listen in silence. Senator Henderson.

Sarah Henderson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Education) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, in text messages that have been released and reported in the Australian on 7 June 2023 Mr Sharaz describes you as an old friend. Minister, have you ever invited Mr Sharaz to a personal event or personal celebration?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you. I start by saying I'm not responsible for how people describe their relationship with me. In Senator Henderson's question she again raises the text messages that have been published in the Australian. When they are raising that, I again ask people to think about what message that is sending out to women right now who are living in dangerous situations and to consider the impact on them. Frankly, we have a bigger job to do in here to protect those women. When they see seemingly illegally accessed documents are then published on the TV and in newspapers and repeated constantly in this place, the message to them is: 'Watch out. Don't open your mouth.' I think that is wrong. I think we have a responsibility to ensure that that isn't the message out of this place.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, please resume your seat.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On the third part of her question, I don't recall and the answer is no.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Henderson?

Sarah Henderson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Education) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I was just going to raise a point of order about relevance, but the minister did come to the question.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You will recall that the minister was invited to answer the question as she thought was appropriate.