Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Finance, Senator Gallagher. Minister, I refer to the allegations of sexual assault that were the subject of intense questioning by you over the months from February 2021. Did you or your office seek any briefing from police or prosecutors on evidence and procedural laws to ensure that your pursuit of those allegations in the parliament and the media did not affect any investigation into this matter?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

President, I raise a point of order. This parliament and this chamber has had a lot of focus on these issues in these last days, and, as I said yesterday, I have taken the view that it is appropriate for questions to be asked and answered. But I would ask you, as chair, given the number of questions that have been asked, to recall President Hogg's ruling in 2014 in relation to the scope of questions, making it clear that questions about historical events before a senator became a minister are not in order. Now, we've not chosen till now to put that to you, but given that yesterday we had a question about a wedding, I think it's probably time that the Senate started to look at whether or not the questions in fact comply with the rulings of Senator Hogg.

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

President, in considering the point of order, I would invite you to consider that, in the previous parliament, more than 50 questions were asked directly on these related issues to then ministers and that the questions that have been asked over the course of this week relate to statements that were made by Senator Gallagher and by Senator Wong in the parliament and statements that they've subsequently made outside of the parliament in response to media queries as ministers—and there are a range of precedents that determine the validity of the questions that have been asked—and, through that, to consider the reasonableness of them continuing to be asked if necessary. These questions could have been curtailed had we indeed had a situation where Senator Gallagher acknowledged that she had misled and, having acknowledged that, simply corrected the record. However, that has not been the case, so the opposition has chosen to ask what we contend to be reasonable questions, consistent with existing practice and precedent and, within that, consistent very much with the type of prosecution we've seen of similar matters before.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Birmingham and Senator Wong. I'll seek the advice of the Clerk.

Honourable senators interjecting—

Order! Order across the chamber! Senator Wong has raised an order by previous president Hogg, and Senator Birmingham has made comments. I am advised that the link is tenuous, and I'm going to invite Senator Gallagher to answer the question to the extent that she thinks is necessary. I will also take the matter on notice and, if necessary, come back to the chamber with a further statement. Thank you. Minister Gallagher.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Can I ask that Senator Cash repeat the question?

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I refer you to the allegations of sexual assault that were the subject of intense questioning by you over the months from February 2021. Did you or your office seek any briefing from police or prosecutors on evidence and procedural laws to ensure that your pursuit of those allegations did not affect any investigation into this matter?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

tor GALLAGHER (—) (): The formulation of our questions was done in the normal way, through our own processes. I would say that throughout those questions we were always conscious of making sure that our questions didn't go to issues that may be raised and considered through further or future investigations. And I have certainly not—and I can check the record on this—there was no feedback from any of those authorities that they were concerned about the questions we were asking. I mean, we are in the Australian Senate. I don't know how many times people vet their questions through other organisations, but—

Well, I completely reject that. I completely reject the weaponisation allegations. I reject the allegation and the assertion just made by Senator Ruston that I am a disgrace and that I don't hold myself to the same standard as them.

Honourable senators interjecting—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, please resume your seat. A serious question has been asked. The minister is, in a very genuine way, attempting to answer it, and then there are interjections, and then there are interjections across the chamber. That is disrespectful. Minister, please continue.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you. I think I've addressed the question, and I would say that the only time when we considered and changed our approach was when Senator Reynolds sought our assistance. I think if you go back and check the record you will see that we responded to those requests, made in front of Senator Ruston, that we did consider the request that was put to us and change our approach.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Cash and Senator Henderson, I don't know how many times I have to call you to order, and you are being disrespectful of the authority that I carry in this chamber. I would ask you to reflect on what you're saying and I would ask you to treat questions and answers with respect. Senator Cash, a first supplementary.

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Again, in relation to the allegations of sexual assault that were the subject of intense questioning by you over the months from February 2021, did you or your office seek any advice on whether your decision to pursue those allegations over months in the parliament and the media could hinder the prospect of a fair trial and damage any prospect of conviction?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I refer to my earlier answer, and I would say again: the allegations that we sought to ask questions about were allegations that a young woman had something dreadful happen to her in this building that we work in. Is anyone suggesting that there shouldn't have been questions asked about how that occurred? That is the issue here.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Cash and Senator Henderson!

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There were public allegations made about two Liberal staffers in a minister's office which had traumatised a young woman to the point that she went public—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, please resume your seat.

Senator Watt, I'm asking you to refrain from interjecting. And once again, I'm asking you, Senator Henderson and Senator Cash, to do the same. Minister, please continue.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

So the suggestion that we shouldn't have asked questions, I think, is unreasonable. I am answering the question.

Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Health and Aged Care) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You should answer the question.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Ruston, I am answering all of the questions. But the idea that we shouldn't have asked questions is unreasonable. (Time expired)

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Cash, second supplementary?

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Did you or your office, in relation to the allegations of sexual assault which were pursued, seek any advice on whether your decision to pursue those allegations over months in both the parliament and the media could be damaging to the privacy, health and wellbeing of the very many people involved, including others in this building?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

We asked reasonable questions that I thank the public would have expected us to answer, considering the seriousness of the allegations that had been raised.

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is a protection racket!

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator Gallagher, please resume your seat. Minister Wong, did you have a point of order?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I was asking Senator Cash to perhaps cease for a moment in her interjections while the senator was on her feet.

Honourable senators interjecting—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! These are serious matters. I've said that over and over again. I am being fair across the chamber. I want the questions asked in silence and I want the answers responded to in silence. It is legitimate to call points of order, but it is not legitimate to keep calling out across the chamber, and I think it's not fair to make me the arbiter of your behaviour. You're in control of whether you shout out or not, and I will keep sitting the minister down and drawing it to the chamber's attention. I'm asking you to listen in respectful silence—from both sides of the chamber. I don't think that is an outrageous ask. Minister, please continue.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you. We were mindful of people's health and wellbeing. We considered that deeply, but we also had to ask questions that needed to be asked about something that happened in this building.

Sarah Henderson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Education) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It was prejudicial.

Opposition senators interjecting—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order on my left particularly!

Government sen ators interjecting—

And on my right! Minister, please continue.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

So we asked reasonable questions at that time. We were mindful of people's health and wellbeing. When those issues were raised directly with us—and Senator Ruston knows this—we responded appropriately.