Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Shadow Minister for Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Treasurer, Senator Gallagher. In defending the government's policy of protecting a certain carrier and slugging travellers with high-cost airfares, the Prime Minister has repeatedly claimed, 'In Australia we have the most open aviation market in the world, bar none.' He said that on ABC radio on 31 August. Again, on Sky News, he said, 'It, in fact, is the most competitive market in the world.' The government's two-month-late Aviation green paper, released by the minister for transport today, says on page 26:

Australia's domestic aviation sector is highly concentrated, with few market participants … Combined, the two groups control 95.1 per cent of the Australian domestic market.

Minister, who is correct: the Prime Minister or Minister Catherine King's Aviation green paper?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator McKenzie for the question, and I don't see any inconsistency in those statements at all. But I am happy to talk about the issue of aviation and competition and the fact that we are cleaning up a mess that we've inherited, yet again. Let's think of all of the areas that we are actually having to deal with after a decade of failure. I don't even know what you were all doing when you came to work, but it obviously was not very much, because we inherited an energy crisis, we had pressures in health, we had pressures in infrastructure and we had pressures in aviation.

The:

Minister Gallagher, please resume your seat. Senator Birmingham?

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

President, I think this is a very clear case of direct relevance and I'm sure—I could almost feel it in your body language—that, if I hadn't stood when I did, you were about to draw the minister to the question. In the first 30 seconds, she decided to pivot purely to a commentary on the previous government, having been asked a question that solely covered statements of the Prime Minister about the aviation market and a quote from the Aviation green paper and sought clarification of the consistency between those statements. The question was entirely, exclusively about the aviation market and its competitiveness or its concentration.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Birmingham. Senator Watt on a point of order?

Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I have a point of order, President. You may well be aware of this, but anyone listening to Senator Gallagher's answer would realise that she answered it in the first three or four seconds. She is obviously entitled to carry on her answer as she chooses after that.

Honourable senators interjecting—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Interjections across the chamber—

Senator Watt! I have the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate on his feet. Senator Birmingham.

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

To Senator Watt's point: it is not in order for a minister if they have answered the question to then speak about any other topic of zero relevance to the question they were asked. An answer to a question in its entirety needs to be directly relevant. Context, as previous Presidents have ruled, can be provided, but the minister was very plainly not providing context to a question specifically about the aviation market and its competitiveness.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Birmingham. I seek the advice of the Clerk. I am advised that the minister did answer the question in the first few seconds of her response, but she has strayed. I remind her of your point of order. Minister Gallagher.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you for that direction, President. I will come back to the aviation green paper, which was referenced in Senator McKenzie's question. It has been released today. It is the next step in setting up the sector's long-term future. It is part of cleaning up the mess, as I said, that we inherited from those opposite, who clearly did nothing in the last decade. We want a more competitive sector, one with stronger protections and better accessibility for those with a disability. We want to keep our world-leading safety record in an industry—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister Gallagher, please resume your seat. Senator McKenzie?

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Shadow Minister for Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I have a point of order, Madam President. The answer that the minister gave was that she saw no inconsistency between the Prime Minister's comments and the green paper's comments, between being the most competitive in the world and being one of the most concentrated—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I think you're getting onto a debating point.

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Shadow Minister for Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

She has literally just proved the inconsistency between the two comments.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator McKenzie, that's an indulgence. It's a debating point. Minister Gallagher, please continue.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I said, this aviation green paper is to essentially look at how we create and deliver the best aviation sector that we can both internationally and domestically. It's because of the failure of the former government that we are starting this work now, because it hasn't been done and it wasn't done in their term. It is right that we have the green paper, we go out and have further consultations, and then there will be a white paper to ensure that we get the best outcomes across the board. That's for the aviation industry itself. It's for consumers. It's to ensure that we are ensuring competition and promoting competition where we can in a complex industry that operates— (Time expired)

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator McKenzie, first supplementary?

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Shadow Minister for Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

McKENZIE (—) (): The former Treasurer disagrees. When asked about airline competition at the National Press Club on 29 August 2023 the assistant minister for competition, Dr Leigh, said: 'I look to Europe with its range of low-cost carriers and see what looks like an even more competitive ecosystem. So moving us towards that I think is a long-term goal.' Minister, who is correct? Is the Prime Minister right when he says that Australia has the most competitive market in the world or is the competition assistant minister correct?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Again both of those statements are correct.

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Shadow Minister for Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

They can't be.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Well, they are. I know you can just put them together and put your spin on it. We are looking at ways to improve competition. That's why we've got the work that the Treasurer and the Assistant Treasurer are doing in the Treasury. It's why we're looking at the green paper and then the white paper. There are clearly and obviously areas where everyone in the aviation industry wants to see if there's room to improve.

This government will actually talk to people. We will negotiate, we will consult and we will deliver a plan—unlike those opposite, who for two years sat on reports and reviews that they inherited, did nothing and provided no direction. That is not the position this government takes. We're doing the work. We're talking with all of those involved. And we will deliver the best aviation system that this country deserves and expects. (Time expired)

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator McKenzie, a second supplementary?

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Shadow Minister for Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'd like to thank the minister for giving some context that she actually backs the green-paper commentary—that there is room for improvement, that we are a concentrated aviation market and that we do need to get more competitive—in direct contrast to the Prime Minister's public statements. Minister, why is the Albanese government protecting a major airline whilst punishing Australian travellers with high-cost airfares in the middle of a cost-of-living crisis?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

We're doing no such thing. I think you allude to the decision by the transport minister that she made around Qatar's request for extra flights. I would point out—I know it's convenient to ignore it, and we've gone through it in this place and we've gone through it in the House—that we have numbers of flights being increased by a number of international carriers. We have had over 1,800 international flights coming in and out of Australia in the last week. Flights are increasing, capacity on those flights is increasing and we have existing international carriers that are adding flights and adding capacity on those flights. So I completely reject the assertion in Senator McKenzie's question. The aviation industry is recovering post-COVID. More flights are coming, more seats are available and we will see prices come down.