Jane Hume (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

May I just point out to the chamber that there is now an amendment to an amendment that has been circulated in my name that I will be moving on behalf of the opposition: the amendment on sheet 2115, of which the government is aware. I just want to make sure that it has been circulated around the chamber. It's simply a technical amendment to an amendment. But in the meantime I do have some questions for the minister that I would like to get on the record. The first one of those is really about the appointment of the CEO of the new PWSS and exactly what the process will be around the appointment of that CEO.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Hume. I appreciate the sum of the discussions that we've had in the PLT on this. We would hope and envisage that it would be a consultative process around the appointment. There has been some early testing of interest or gearing up, but the formal recruitment process hasn't started. We're happy to work across the PLT with any views that you may have over that. It will be an important position that an individual will be recruited to, and it's important that that individual has the support of the parliament.

Jane Hume (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Minister, for that. I agree that the concept of consultation in the appointment of the CEO, particularly the first CEO, is just so fundamentally important to the success of this body. So, for the benefit of the committee, perhaps you could describe to us how that consultation on the appointment will be conducted. Will be done in writing, for instance? Will you write to those that you're consulting with? What will the timing of that consultation process be?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'm happy to take views, particularly those of the PLT, on that. I'm happy to consult in writing if that's the preference. I would expect that people may have some views on the selection criteria for the position to help shape those. I'm very happy to work with you and others on that. We all have a vested interest in making sure this is a successful appointment, not least for the person that will be ultimately successful in that appointment. In terms of timing, the reason we're trying to have passage of these bills today is so that it can be operational in October, which doesn't leave a huge amount of time. So I would expect we need to really move on this in the next few days.

Jane Hume (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Again, thank you, Minister, for that full response. I want to understand: if the consultation does occur and occurs in writing, will you wait for a response to that consultation before making the appointment?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, I would expect so. Again, if there's a particular interest, I'm very happy to work with everyone on how the recruitment process works in practice for this position. It's just that timing issue. I would expect that, even when there were the final candidates, there would be some discussion and a consultative way of working through that in a confidential and professional way.

Jane Hume (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you. That is reassuring. Can I ask you just a little bit more? Without breaking any confidences, of course, is this an appointment that will be considered by cabinet? If so, will that consultation with cabinet or discussion with cabinet occur before or after the consultation with other interested members around the workplace?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I haven't got confirmation of this, so I stand to be corrected, but I imagine this appointment would be taken to cabinet. I would hope that if Senator Farrell or I take that appointment, it is done with the ability for us to recommend to the cabinet that this is a position that has been consulted and supported.

Jane Hume (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, you recently informed the Parliamentary Leadership Taskforce that recruitment of a CEO has already commenced, at least in its embryonic stages. Could you provide an update on whether that recruitment process has progressed any further since that update to the PLT?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

GALLAGHER (—) (): My understanding is that we advertised to appoint a recruiter for the appointment, but it hasn't progressed, pending the legislation passing. I would expect that will move at speed now.

Jane Hume (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Has it progressed to a point where there are already names that are being considered for the position and, if so, how many will be considered?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Certainly not to my knowledge. I haven't seen any names. I don't believe it's at that point.

Jane Hume (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Can I ask whether the government has provided any recommendations of individuals to the recruitment process at this stage? If so, could the Minister undertake to provide an update of those names that the government has recommended to the PLT as soon as possible?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

ator GALLAGHER (—) (): Yes. There haven't been any names.

Jane Hume (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Could you confirm for the chamber how mandatory policies and procedures will be made under this legislation? Will the policies, specifically, be disallowable?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

This is an area where we had some discussion. Senator Hume, your question was about how it is going to work in practice; is that right?

Jane Hume (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes—whether you can confirm for the chamber, exactly how the mandatory policies and procedures will be made and whether the policies will be disallowable.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

tor GALLAGHER (—) (): This is covered under section 17 of the act—the policy development function. It is an area we had some discussion over. A policy or procedure determined under that section may declare that it's a mandatory policy or procedure, and that is determined by the CEO by legislative instrument, which is disallowable.

Jane Hume (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Is there a requirement for those mandatory policies to be approved by anyone, and if so by whom?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Again, this is a change that we've made in consultation with each other. Before a CEO determines a mandatory policy or procedure, the CEO must consult with the PWSS Consultative Committee and must have referred the mandatory policy to the PWSS Advisory Board. The PWSS Advisory Board must have been taken to have approved the mandatory policy or procedure or the advisory board must have notified the CEO that it has approved the proposed mandatory policy or procedure. The PWSS must also publish a policy or procedure determined under this section on its website. That gives the board the ability to tick it off and then return it to the CEO.

Jane Hume (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Can I ask the minister how she envisages the consultation on those mandatory policies and procedures will occur before they're made mandatory? I understand that the advisory board will be part of that process, but how do you actually see that back-and-forth happening in real life? In particular, how will the opportunity be given to staff to consult on proposed mandatory policies and procedures? Will it be given at all? If so, will that go via the board?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It does need to go to the PWSS consultative committee. That is the forum for consultation. In terms of the advisory board and its considerations with the CEO, I imagine that would be between the advisory board and the CEO, but the consultative forum would be the appropriate place for the consultations to the board. Before the CEO determines a mandatory policy or procedure, it must consult the PWSS consultative committee about that policy or procedure, and I would imagine the PWSS advisory board would have to consider that as part of its consideration.

Jane Hume (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Can I clarify? Did you say the work health and safety committee would also be consulted there as well?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is the PWSS consultative committee under section 17(6). That would be the forum for that consultation that you were talking about, because, before the CEO determines that it is a mandatory policy or procedure, it has to go to that committee.

Jane Hume (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Can we expect, then, that the work health and safety committee will also be consulted as a part of that broader process as well?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'm advised that that would happen if that policy related to a work health and safety matter.

Jane Hume (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There are rule-making provisions under the PWSS Bill under section 69. Can you describe to the chamber what's envisaged under those powers? Specifically, will the rules made under this section be disallowable?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Under section 69, the minister may by legislative instrument make rules prescribing matters. They would be disallowable. It's essentially prescribing matters required or permitted by this act to be prescribed by rules or necessary or convenient to be prescribed for carrying out or giving effect to this act. Under the explanatory memorandum, which deals with this, the minister may make rules prescribing codes of conduct, details of a matter that must or must not be included in a public report, under clause 22, remuneration and allowances to be paid to the CEO, or members of the PWSS advisory board, matters relating to the operation of the PWSS advisory board, provision for or in relation to the PWSS consultative committee or a Commonwealth entity, office or appointment under the law of the Commonwealth for the purposes of giving information to the PWSS for certain reports.

There are some examples of the rule-making power.

Jane Hume (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'm conscious of time, Minister. I realise we're going to hit a hard marker and I know that we want to get this done. I'm not sure whether there are other questions around the chamber, but I just want to clarify two more things. First, will the rules that are made under the sections be listed on the Federal Register of Legislation?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, they would be.

Jane Hume (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Finally, on the IPSC, the next great piece of the elephant that we have to bite off, can I confirm for the benefit of the chamber that it remains the commitment of the government to draft and introduce legislation relating to the independent parliamentary standards commission within the next 12 months?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, it does. We can move as fast as the parliament is prepared to move with us. As you know, Senator Hume, we've got that principles document with the PLT now. We will move straight into intense negotiations on that piece of legislation from today.

Jane Hume (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, the bill has been amended to have a sunsetting provision to the review function that allows for the independent complaints mechanism. Can you explain why that amendment has a two-year time period rather than a shorter period of twelve months?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

This is just to ensure that we have in place, in a sense, a safety net for those investigations that may be ongoing in the event of the parliament dissolving. It's essentially to give comfort and time for those ongoing investigations to continue. I seek leave to move amendments (1) to (4) on sheet ZB244 together.

Leave granted.

In respect of the Parliamentary Workplace Support Service Bill 2023, I move government amendments (1) to (4) on sheet ZB244 together:

(1) Clause 5, page 5 (after line 14), after the definition of member, insert:

Minister: see section 6A.

(2) Page 7 (after line 24), after clause 6, insert:

6A References to the Minister

Despite section 19 of the Acts Interpretation Act 1901, a reference to "the Minister" in a provision of this Act or the PWSS rules at a particular time is a reference to:

(a) the Special Minister of State, if there is a Minister identified by that title at that time; or

(b) otherwise—the Minister, or any of the Ministers, administering the provision at that time.

Note: A reference to a Minister in paragraph (a) or (b) of this section may include a reference to a person acting for or on behalf of the Minister (see subsection 19(4) of the Acts Interpretation Act 1901).

(3) Clause 22, page 21 (line 31) to page 22 (line 3), omit subclauses 22(5) and (6), substitute:

(5) Before the PWSS publishes a report under this section on its website, the PWSS must give each of the following persons (a Presiding Officer) a copy of the report:

(a) the President of the Senate;

(b) the Speaker of the House of Representatives.

(6) A Presiding Officer of a House of the Parliament must cause a copy of the report to be presented to that House as soon as practicable after the Presiding Officer receives the copy under subsection (5).

(4) Clause 22, page 22 (line 5), omit "laid before", substitute "presented to".

These are some amendments we have negotiated with the opposition to ensure that the administering minister is the Special Minister of State and that, when it comes to tabling public reports, those are done by the presiding officers, which is in line with entities like the ANAO. That's the way its reports are tabled. I commend those amendments to the chamber.

Jane Hume (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The opposition will be supporting these amendments. They've been made to give certainty and clarity to the legislation for staff and for parliamentarians. The first part ensures that the legislation will be managed by the minister who's traditionally the minister responsible for matters relating to our workplaces, expenses and resourcing, and that's the Special Minister of State. This is appropriate in that it will ensure that the matters that relate to us as a workplace are managed together in a holistic way.

The second is a small but important amendment. In the original drafting of the bill, the PWSS would have been required to provide reports through the minister before they were tabled in parliament. This amendment will mean that the bill will be provided directly to the chambers in such a way that no member of the ministry determines the timing of publication and that there's no perception of politicisations of these reports, particularly those reports that relate to noncompliance with the PWSS mandatory policies and education. In respect of the Parliamentary Workplace Support Service Bill 2023, I move opposition amendment (1) on sheet 2115:

(1) At the end of the sheet, add:

"(5) Clause 23, page 23 (line 19), omit "Minister", substitute "President of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives"."

This amendment corrects an error in the drafting following the government amendment. It will change a now outdated reference to section 23 to reflect the changes made in the amendments in ZB244, where there will be no longer reference to a minister in section 22(5). We're moving this amendment just to assist in the legibility of the legislation and correct that oversight.

Question agreed to.

Dorinda Cox (WA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The question now is that government amendments (1) to (4) on sheet ZB244, as amended, be agreed to.

Question agreed to.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I seek leave to move amendments (1) and (2) on sheet ZC219 together.

Leave granted.

In respect of the Parliamentary Workplace Support Service (Consequential Amendments and Transitional Provisions) Bill 2023, I move government amendments (1) and (2) on sheet ZC219 together:

(1) Clause 2, page 2 (at the end of the table), add:

(2) Page 9 (after line 22), at the end of the Bill, add:

Schedule 3 — Repeal of review function

Parliamentary Workplace Support Service Act 2023

1 Section 4

Omit:

(f) its review function; and

2 Section 11

Omit:

(f) its review function; and

3 Paragraph 13(f)

Repeal the paragraph.

4 Section 19

Repeal the section.

5 Subsection 61(6)

After "section 19", insert "(as in force immediately before the repeal of that section by Schedule 3 to the Parliamentary Workplace Support Service (Consequential Amendments and Transitional Provisions) Act 2023)".

These amendments relate essentially to a sunset provision for the investigation mechanism that's being provided to the PWSS for two years after commencement of the PWSS. Obviously, in that time we'll be working to get the IPSC well in place, but it just provides that extra bit of time should unforeseen circumstances arise and there are ongoing investigations so that they will not stop with the arbitrary cut-off, should it be a shorter time frame. This gives more than enough time. The IPSC will be up and running, and it will be the body that does the investigations following its establishment.

Jane Hume (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The opposition will also be supporting this amendment. It's an important marker for all of us, including our staff and our workplaces. It places a time limit on the functions of the PWSS in relation to reviews, which is a function that will ultimately rest with the new independent parliamentary standards commission. The sunsetting clause means that this parliament will need to act before this function ceases. It will keep us honest to our commitments. The government has placed a time limit of two years on getting this other body established. Even though the opposition has asked for 12 months—that's when we asked for it to be created—we'll support this amendment because it will at least create that time limit.

Question agreed to.

Bills, as amended, agreed to.

Bills reported with amendments; report adopted.