Slade Brockman (WA, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I move:

That the Senate take note of the answers given by the Minister for Trade and Tourism (Senator Farrell) to questions without notice asked by Senator Scarr and Senator Hume today relating to interest rates.

We saw at the end of question time that the acting Leader of the Government in the Senate—and I think we're all going to be very relieved when Senator Wong returns—was completely unable to give Australians any reassurance that this Labor government has a clue about how to deal with the inflation and cost-of-living crisis that is facing families, small businesses and medium-sized businesses right across Australia. In fact, the modus operandi of those opposite seems to be that a lie told often enough becomes the truth. This is a quote attributed to Vladimir Lenin—perhaps not surprisingly, someone from the Left—but it actually predates Vladimir Lenin.

But there is a truth to it in relation to the way that this government is operating. They want to blame the previous government for interest rate rises, all of which—bar one—have been under their watch. They've delivered two budgets since gaining office, and it is their economic settings that the RBA look at when they decide whether or not to raise interest rates. We've seen this pattern a couple of times now. The RBA paused interest rate rises before the government handed down the last budget. The RBA said, 'We're going to pause, wait, look at the government's budget and decide what to do.' They waited a month and then they raised interest rates. Then they paused again, waited, and watched this government and what they were doing in relation to their own balance sheet to address the inflationary issues in our economy. And the RBA has raised interest rates again today.

That hits Australian families hard and that hits small businesses extraordinarily hard. They're facing cost pressures from so many directions. It's not just from the interest rate rises on their borrowings—whether that be a mortgage or a small business loan—but also from cost-of-living pressures from their suppliers and when they're going down to the shops, buying the groceries, filling up their car at the petrol station and paying their electricity bills. A lie told often enough can turn into the truth. The Labor Party keeps saying electricity prices are coming down; it's simply not true—

Andrew McLachlan (SA, Deputy-President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator O'Neill, on a point of order?

Deborah O'Neill (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I have a point of order: there is a general sensibility about the use of the word 'lie', and I think the implication in the member's contribution is at odds with standing orders. I'd just draw your attention to that.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, Senator Brockman?

Slade Brockman (WA, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I was referring generally to the Labor Party, not to an individual. And I was referring to an historic quote which I'm sure is very well known, not just to people in this place but to all Australians.

Andrew McLachlan (SA, Deputy-President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

We're trying to get rid of the word lie from the lexicon of the chamber, so I'd ask you to exercise restraint. I think it was a quote, but I didn't hear it carefully.

Slade Brockman (WA, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I won't repeat the quote, even though it's a very famous quote. Clearly those opposite—in this chamber and as a government—are terribly sensitive about their approach to public policy if they can't even stand mild criticism. They continuously trot out this claim that electricity prices are falling, when every single Australian knows when they receive their electricity bill that those prices are going up and up and up. Not one Australian has seen a reduction in their energy bills off the back of anything this government has done.

Let's just go through some of the numbers we've seen in the last 15 months under the Labor Party. The cost of food is up 8.2 per cent, the cost of housing is up 10.4 per cent, the cost of insurance is up 17.3 per cent, the cost of electricity is up 18.2 per cent and the cost of gas is up 28 per cent. Yet those opposite have the gall to criticise us for voting against their terrible policy in relation to electricity and their awful policy in terms of gas. These policies are adding to the inflationary pressures in the economy, not taking inflationary pressures out of the economy. This Labor government have no clue how to deal with inflation. Their budgets pushed more money into the economy. A number of senior economists have said that Labor budgets were pushing inflationary pressures into the economy. Today, with this interest rate rise, we see the result of Labor's policies.

Tony Sheldon (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

In response to those take notes: we've got a situation here where these are the people who, when we came into government, had left a trillion dollars in future debt. These are the people who have turned around and come in here to lecture us about what needs to be done in the Australian economy.

We know people are doing it tough; they're doing it tough because of the policies of those opposite. And they're doing it tough for lots of other reasons. We have implemented $23 billion worth of cost-of-living support across this economy and for people right across this country. And what have the opposition done? When we put up investing in energy bills relief, the Liberals and Nationals voted against it. We put in cost-of-living relief for energy, and they voted against it. What did they do when it came to cheaper medicines? People are struggling in our communities, trying to deal with the cost of living and what did those opposite do? They voted against that relief. That's what they're about: a trillion dollars of debt and voting against cost-of-living relief. When it came to cheaper child care, what did they do? Surprise, surprise! They voted against that as well. That's because they cannot see an opportunity to turn around and support the Australian public. When there are the hard times that people are facing at the moment, what do they do? They just want to make them harder!

We call for relief and we put policies forward to make sure there's relief and opportunity to turn around and actually have the economy be more productive—to get family members out there to work by having cheaper child care. What did they do? They voted against it. We do sensible relief and they vote against it. We do financial relief and they vote against it. We can look at increased rent assistance and boosting income support payments, which the Liberals and Nationals were against too. How many things can they be against?

Well, there actually are more! They were against affordable homes—they were against affordable homes in this country, in these tough times! They couldn't even get that right! They're against every measure to make it easier for the Australian public in these tough times. They gave us a trillion dollars in debt and then they voted against cost-of-living relief and things that could make this economy more supportive to the rest of the community.

But, don't worry: we invested in things that make the cost of living cheaper for people who are doing TAFE. That's because we want to organise people to have more opportunity, including not only those who are socially disadvantaged but others in our community across the regions, states and urban areas of our country through hundreds of thousands of fee-free TAFE places. You might think, 'That's a logical thing; they'd vote for that one, wouldn't they?' They voted against that as well! We're trying to get productivity boosts in this economy, with the opportunities for more jobs, more training and more skills to make sure that Australians have those opportunities, and they voted against them. It's cost-of-living relief and also a productivity boost, and they voted against it.

We can start looking at some of these things they voted against and some of their comments. I think the fee-free TAFE is just a real bobby-dazzler. When we think of that one, there are some of the comments made by the shadow minister for skills and training, the deputy opposition leader. Her view was that paying for fee-free TAFE, or having it in the first place, was a waste of money. They voted against it; they ridiculed people doing TAFE. They ridiculed all those people out there, all those apprentices, who have turned around and are making sure that we have a better and well-trained community with the opportunities out there. They voted against it and they spoke against it. They demeaned it!

Then we can look at some of the comments made by others about cost-of-living pressures when it comes to wages—every wage initiative we have taken. There was the minimum wage and extra payments for aged-care workers, which had been recommended by the royal commission. Those were things which meant that our loved ones actually have the care they need and that the 250,000 workers in that largely feminised industry have a more decent rate of pay. And what did they do? They voted against it! Minimum wage increases: they voted against them! At every opportunity to have companies and workers work together for better wages and more productivity, involving employer bargaining, they voted against it. It's because they just don't like the idea that people stand together and look after each other. That's what you do when things are tough; you don't sit on your hands and do nothing!

Andrew Bragg (NSW, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On a day when interest rates have hit 4.35 per cent, and after 12 interest rate rises under this government, Australians are going to be doing it very hard if they have a mortgage. At least a third of the Australian public are going to be under great pressure. There are definitely going to be Australians that are going to look at this and say, 'That won't affect me directly,' but at least a third of the populace have got a mortgage. By representing a state like New South Wales with a large city like Sydney within it, I know that there are many people across Sydney that have very large mortgages, and they will be looking at this result today, of the interest rates going up, and thinking: 'How am I going to make this all work? How am I going to make it stack up for my own personal circumstances?' The consequence here is that people will in some ways have to economise. In other ways, they will have to have a conversation with their bank. Some people will not be able to continue, and they will lose their homes. And that is the great tragedy of this outcome today.

Being in the position of having 12 rate rises in a row is a direct result, a direct consequence, of the government's fiscal policy. We had Senate estimates last week, and I asked the Governor of the Reserve Bank whether the government was running a contractionary fiscal policy. The governor told me that fiscal policy was neutral. So it's not contractionary. So here you are with the Reserve Bank of Australia raising interest rates 12 times under the Labor government, and that same governor, Ms Bullock, is telling the government, 'Cut spending. Help us.' We want the government to run a contractionary fiscal policy because that is the best thing the government can do to reduce pressure on the Reserve Bank, which is now smashing mortgage holders. So, indirectly, the government is making it so much harder for mortgage holders across Australia to keep their homes and to do what they want to do with their own money. This is a hugely regrettable day.

Government Senator:

A government senator interjecting

Andrew Bragg (NSW, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Sorry, I didn't hear that? What's that?

Andrew McLachlan (SA, Deputy-President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It's not a conversation, Senator Bragg. It's through me.

Andrew Bragg (NSW, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I couldn't hear it. I just wanted to hear it. I'm sure it would have been a good one. It's always good to try and hear the interjection if you can!

Ultimately, though, the Australian people have two major problems with this particular economic strategy the government has deployed. The first is that it is a government for vested interests. The only policies this government is interested in are policies which enrich the unions and the major super funds. That is the policy of the government: vested interests. The unions and the big super funds run this country with Labor in office. The only policies you want to see in this chamber are things the unions and super funds want. Pattern bargaining, the abolition of labour hire, more and more money for their mates in the super funds—the whole government is run for vested interests.

The second issue is that when you only have time to look after your best mates—the people who run your pre-selections, fund your campaigns and do everything for you on polling day—you have no time to look after the major issues facing the Australian people. I hate to break it to the government, but the major issue facing most people under 40 in this country is housing. What's happened today with the interest rate going up has made it so much harder for people to stay in a house and even harder for young people to get into a first home. The government says it doesn't care about people and their housing needs. They brush their hands and they laugh off this new interest rate rise today. After 12 interest rate rises under this government, which are going to make a bad situation with housing so much worse, particularly in Sydney, the government can just laugh and sneer, as we saw in question time and now here in the Senate chamber.

The disappointing thing here is that the government could be doing a lot to help mortgage holders. But they have chosen to run, as the Reserve Bank governor herself has said, a neutral fiscal policy, when they should be running a contractionary fiscal policy to help the Reserve Bank do its job.

Deborah O'Neill (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I relish the opportunity to make a contribution on this important day, because I really do care about the third of Australians who are going to find it difficult to stay in their homes. But I'm disappointed by the nature and the quality of the questions and the attitude that we've seen. It's almost gleeful delight from those in opposition that this is a tough time for Australians, because they can manufacture that into some sort of political campaign. In the meantime, we are the government that has to act responsibly and in the national interest, and responsibly managing the budget is a vital task. That's why I'm proud to be a Labor senator alongside the Treasurer, Jim Chalmers, who after all the promises of the previous government delivered the first surplus Australia's seen in decades.

Economic responsibility is a signature of a good government, and we have to do the very best we can for Australians. That is why we've got two things we have to do. One of them is certainly to really watch what's happening in terms of inflation. But it's not the government that determines when a rate should rise, when the Reserve Bank raises or lowers rates. It is the Reserve Bank that does it independent of government. The reason that's done is the wisdom of establishing that separation. Of course as a government you don't want to see people suffer. You don't want to see that suffering and that hurt. We want to do everything we can to support people. But the reality is that, just as COVID was an international phenomenon, so is inflation. It is like a disease in the economy, and we don't live in an economy that sits outside the world. We are part of the world. With the increase in the rates that did come through today, we are responding to that as a nation at the direction of the RBA.

In New Zealand their current policy rate is 5.5 per cent. They've raised their rates by 525 basis points—5.25 per cent. Ours is now 4.35. Listen to the comparators. In the US they've raised it by 5.25. In Canada they've raised it by 4.75 per cent. The European Central Bank raised it by 4.5 per cent, and in England they raised it by 5.15 per cent. No-one, no government, wants to see inflation rise. No government can afford to allow it to fester. We have to use the tools that we have, and the responsible direction of the RBA is critical to what we do. But, while we are suffering that pain as a nation together—every single one of us who has a mortgage or loves somebody who does, making up one-third of the nation—a responsible government does things to assist those who are struggling. That's why $23 billion is being invested, against the wishes of those opposite who asked the questions today, to help Australians get through this tough time. That's what Labor governments do. We won't leave people hanging, lingering in financial suffering. That is why, even though those opposite didn't want it, there's electricity bill relief for five million Australians. Those opposite would have left them hanging.

There is cheaper child care. Ninety per cent of Australians who've got child care are getting improved support because of the Albanese Labor government. We increased rent assistance—the biggest rise in decades—because we know how hard it is. They opposed that. Medicare bulk-billing has come in three times—the largest rise in support for Medicare in 30 years. They opposed that.

This Labor government is absolutely committed to supporting Australians in the good times and in the tough times. We are investing this money in Australians to help our fellow Australians get through the difficult periods, boosting income support payments and making sure people can go to TAFE and get retrained fee-free so they can get a job and manage the challenges of this economy. We are building more affordable homes and expanding paid parental leave. These are things that the Labor will do to support people through the challenges that lie with us and ahead.

Maria Kovacic (NSW, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What a challenging day for Australian mortgage holders. When I stood here on 5 September and gave my first speech, I talked about how somebody under 40 years of age in Australia is less likely than at any time in our history to own their home. The RBA decision to raise rates again in the midst of this cost-of-living crisis, in the midst of this inflationary crisis, has further embedded that. What a sad state of affairs when young Australians are unable to aspire to own their own home.

I have listened with great interest to the different commentary and answers from the other side to the questions from Senator Scarr and Senator Hume. In particular, I noted a couple of references to the Treasurer, Jim Chalmers, about the pride in his work and what he's done. I want to read a note about the Treasurer. I just thought I would go back to a comment from Senator Farrell, which was that we are dealing with a whole bunch of issues coming at us internationally.

So, let's be clear. Prior to the election, when international headwinds were also impacting our economy, Jim Chalmers said:

The former government had an excuse for everything and a plan for nothing. They want to talk about international comparisons. Australians couldn't give a stuff what inflation is in the United States.

But here today we heard comparisons about international inflation and international interest rates whereas Jim Chalmers said, 'Australians couldn't give a stuff.' That's the standard that this Treasurer set but has not lived up to. He has no plan to bring down inflation in Australia and is leaving it to the RBA to do the heavy lifting in relation to inflation. Consistent with that, it means that Australian mortgage holders, the 33 per cent of Australians that have a mortgage, are the ones doing the heavy lifting to manage inflation in this country. Let's think about that. It is the one-third of people who have struggled to save and put money aside who are being burdened with the additional costs of managing inflation in this country because this government is unable to do so. Because Jim can't live up to the standard he set for himself, interest rates will be higher for longer, Australian families will continue to suffer and more young Australians will not be able to get into their own homes and that is a very sorry state of affairs.

One of the other things I wanted to talk about was the comment Senator Farrell made. He said, 'We have rejigged spending based on our commitments made to the Australian public before the last election.' I had a think about that and the two main commitments that I could think about were to reduce your electricity bill by $275 and to give you a cheaper mortgage. I can tell you right now, I don't know a single Australian who has saved a single dollar on their electricity bill. That is one thing that categorically has not occurred.

We now know that the average Australian family or household with a mortgage is paying $22,000 a year more. Senator Farrell made a comment that confused me. As some of you may know, I spent nearly two decades helping people buy their own homes, so I have a good understanding of what an average loan size is. Senator Farrell said 'an average loan size of $360,000'. I thought, 'That's pretty low.' We had a look at the ABS data and $360,000 is not an average home loan.

The average home loan in New South Wales, according to the ABS, is $764,000. In Victoria, it's $600,000. Nationally, it's $603,000. So that $360,000 figure is probably from somebody who got their loan 15 years ago and is halfway through paying it off, not someone who has to deal with the high cost of entering a home loan in the last one or two years and facing 12 interest rate rises.

Question agreed to.