Malcolm Roberts (Queensland, Pauline Hanson's One Nation Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to Minister representing the Minister for Immigration, Citizenship and Multicultural Affairs, Senator Watt. Does the government control the level of immigration into Australia?

Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Roberts, I note your interest all week in these matters of migration, and the short answer is that under governments of all persuasions, including those who are having a chuckle over there at the moment, the immigration program in Australia is demand driven. That has been the case under this government and the former government as well.

Malcolm Roberts (Queensland, Pauline Hanson's One Nation Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Point of order: it was a very simple, short question. It needs a yes or no answer. That's it.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The minister is being relevant, Senator Roberts. I presume you've finished your answer, Minister Watt?

Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I say—

Matthew Canavan (Queensland, Liberal National Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It's just a yes or no answer, Murray!

Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, it's quite normal for ministers who represent others to look at their notes. Senator Canavan, we can't all be the genius that you are. You are a genius—I pay respect to that—especially when you get into your dark web and your bunker and you dig out all those statistics. You're an absolute genius!

Honourable senators interjecting—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister Watt, resume your seat. Order across the chamber, but particularly on my left.

Tim Ayres (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Assistant Minister for Trade) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, old Telegram Matt!

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Ayres, you have a lot to say this afternoon. This is question time. Minister Watt, I'm asking you to refer your comments to me and not to particular senators.

Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I know Senator Rennick was a bit offended by the fact I singled out Senator Canavan as the only genius in the opposition and the only person who could get into the bunker and find statistics. We know Senator Rennick is pretty good at that as well.

Honourable senators interjecting—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Hughes. I haven't called you, and I haven't called you because the chamber was still disorderly. Senator Hughes.

Hollie Hughes (NSW, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Climate Change and Energy) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

President, you've made very clear this week, and we have heard from those opposite—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What's your point of order, Senator Hughes?

Hollie Hughes (NSW, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Climate Change and Energy) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I would like Minister Watt to withdraw a whole raft of his commentary and reflections on a number of senators over here and his continual snarky personal smears and vilifications.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Hughes, if you want to raise a point of order about unparliamentary or personal language related to a senator, I need their name at least.

Hollie Hughes (NSW, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Climate Change and Energy) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I said Minister Watt!

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Hughes, don't backchat once you're sitting down. You indicated that the minister had had a spray against a range of senators. I have no idea who that was. I am not going to make it up or guess it, so unless you have—

Hollie Hughes (NSW, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Climate Change and Energy) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I literally said it multiple times!

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Hughes, you've raised the point of order. You haven't named a particular senator. You've indicated to me who in your view made the offence but you haven't said about which senator.

Hollie Hughes (NSW, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Climate Change and Energy) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I said it multiple times. Would you like to check the Hansard?

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Hughes, resume your seat. Minister Wong.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I think the difficulty—through you, President—is it was a generalised proposition that the senator was making. If there is a request to withdraw particular language that has just been said—

Hollie Hughes (NSW, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Climate Change and Energy) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

We got multiple lectures this week.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

If that is the request, I'm sure the—

Okay. I'm just saying that a generalised proposition is a difficult one to respond to.

I'm trying to assist here.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Birmingham.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I haven't finished.

The:

I'm sorry, I thought you had finished, Senator Wong.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you. I was just waiting. The proposition—

Honourable senators interjecting—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Do you wish to continue?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There is a generalised complaint about Senator Watt saying things about a number of people. I don't know what those are, but if the request is that Senator Watt withdraw particular language that's just been used—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Scarr, no interjections.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

All I'm saying if there is a request to—

Hollie Hughes (NSW, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Climate Change and Energy) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

And he continues!

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Wow. I'm really trying. If there is a request to withdraw particular language now, I would ask the President to call the minister.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Birmingham?

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, President. I did want to pick up on one part of your ruling there, which was to suggest it was necessary for the senator to name a particular senator who had been impugned. I will make it clear that it is possible for groups of senators to be impugned or to have improper motives attributed to them by a senator and that is also against standing orders.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That's correct.

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

President, as you're well aware, it's not necessary always for a senator to make a point of order and, in the spirit of this week, it would be helpful for strong proactive intervention if senators can't restrain themselves to actually ask them immediately to withdraw. Preferably they would restrain themselves, Senator Watt.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I haven't called you, Senator Watt. I am going to respond to those points of order. I am not in the chamber all the time. That's the point that I made in the statement to the chamber yesterday. It is very difficult for me to ask a senator to withdraw when I don't know where that language has landed. I take your point, Senator Birmingham, that a slur can be made against a group of senators. That's not what Senator Hughes was implying. My understanding of what was indicated was that the minister had made, in Senator Hughes's view, a number of comments to senators throughout the week, not to a group of senators. However, I know that Senator Watt is always willing to own his behaviour and I will, as Senator Watt—

Opposition senators interjecting—

For the benefit of those interjections, a number of you are always willing, on both sides of the chamber, to withdraw. Some of you are not but most of you are. So I am going to invite Senator Watt, if he thinks he has offended senators this week, to make a general withdrawal without making any comment to comments that you may or may not have uttered.

Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I make a general withdrawal.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, please continue.

Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Roberts, the government does have a range of controls in place around the number of migrants coming into Australia, the categories of those migrants, whether they be international students or tourists, humanitarian, skilled workers. The government does have a range of controls around the numbers and types of migrants who come into Australia.

I think I know where you're going with this, because you have followed these issues all week. I point out that we haven't really seen a lot of consistency from the opposition on matters of migration either, because what we do know is that, for instance, when the now immigration spokesperson, the member for Wannon, was in government he was saying things like, 'We need to get our international students back. We need to get our working holiday-maker visa holders back.'

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Roberts?

Malcolm Roberts (Queensland, Pauline Hanson's One Nation Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On a point of order, that's not relevant to what I asked.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'll bring you back to the question, Minister Watt. You've finished. Senator Roberts, your first supplementary?

Malcolm Roberts (Queensland, Pauline Hanson's One Nation Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On 15 May, Treasurer Jim Chalmers told Australia that the level of net overseas migration is 'not something the government determines'. Minister, is that a lie, given your government issues the visas and decides who comes to this country? Why are you letting immigration spiral out of control while hundreds of thousands of Australians are homeless?

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Roberts, I am going to ask you to rephrase that question.

Malcolm Roberts (Queensland, Pauline Hanson's One Nation Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Is that misinformation, given your government issues the visas and decides who comes to this country? Why are you letting immigration spiral out of control while hundreds of thousands of Australians are homeless?

Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I reject the suggestion that the Treasurer has misrepresented the facts on this issue. It is a really important issue that Australia is dealing with at the moment. But, Senator Roberts, in answer to similar questions from you over the course of the week, I've pointed out a number of steps the government have taken to fix the fundamentally broken migration system that we inherited from the opposition and, in particular, from the now Leader of the Opposition, Mr Dutton, who oversaw the migration system as the Minister for Home Affairs for a number of years.

We've already scaled back the pandemic event visa. We're taking action about the working hours for international students, which has been a real drawcard for international students coming to Australia. We've made all sorts of improvements to Home Affairs, in terms of its processing of visa applications. And, of course, when it comes to housing, as I've pointed out to you already, you and your colleagues have an opportunity to vote for more housing and you chose to vote against it.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Roberts, your second supplementary?

Malcolm Roberts (Queensland, Pauline Hanson's One Nation Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

How many overseas immigrants, net, will arrive in Australia this financial year?

Murray Watt (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Again, I know that we've addressed this issue in previous answers, both in chis chamber and in estimates, and the issues around the number of net overseas migrants is a matter that is handled by the Treasury. I've already acknowledged in previous answers on these questions that post COVID, when we had a couple of years of pretty much zero migration to Australia, it was always inevitable that there was going to be an increase in that migration as we had tourists, working holiday-maker visa holders and skilled migrants coming back into the country. That is exactly one of the reasons why our government is trying to fix the broken migration system that we inherited and trying to build more homes, despite your opposition and that of the coalition.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Roberts?

Malcolm Roberts (Queensland, Pauline Hanson's One Nation Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On a point of order, I asked the question: how much net immigration this year?

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The minister explained it is a question that should be directed to Treasury, and the minister was answering it in his capacity. The minister has finished.