Jacqui Lambie (Tasmania, Jacqui Lambie Network) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Defence. Last night I had the privilege to go and see the Australian Industry & Defence Network Sovereign Capability Showcase. This event is a great opportunity for industry companies to show parliament why Australian defence technology capabilities are world-leading. The Australian Bushmaster is world-famous, but there's so much more going on. From drones all the way up to Hawkeis, we make all kinds of kit used by ADF here and overseas.

I spoke to the vendors there, and, at stall after stall, I got the same message: that the Australian government is making it harder and harder for them to sell what they make. 'And why would that be?' I asked. 'Well, the government prefers to buy from foreign-owned manufacturers.'

Minister, why is the Australian government making it harder for Australian defence companies to sell to the Australian government?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Lambie, and you are right; we do need a sovereign capability in this country. The decisions we have to make are in areas we have that sovereign capability. I regret that we've seen nine years of a lot of announcements under the previous government with very little capability actually delivered. We remember there were two submarine plans that were junked over the nine-year period.

David Shoebridge (NSW, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

How's your one going?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'm sorry?

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order!

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Are you a Lib now? It is hard to tell sometimes.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong, I'm going to get you to go to Senator Lambie's question.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

He has gone quiet now, hasn't he?

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister Wong, I am going to draw you to Senator Lambie's question.

Order!

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

They voted with you, actually. Would you like me to sit down or do you want me to continue?

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Could you take your seat for a moment. As I've said on previous occasions, the crossbench are entitled to have their questions asked in silence and to be responded to without interjection from other senators. Minister, please continue.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The Defence Strategic Review goes to many of the capability challenges, which are long lived, that we are working on. The government is also developing the defence industry development strategy in line with the election commitment. Minister Conroy gave a speech today to the National Press Club in which he spoke at length obviously not only about AUKUS but also about the Australian build of the SNN-AUKUS and more broadly about the importance of Australia's sovereign capabilities. I understand, as someone from South Australia, there's been a lot of different decisions made by past governments. There was the Defence Strategic Review, and I appreciate parts of industry may not have liked some parts of that and might have welcomed other parts. I know first-hand about the effect on the Australian Submarine Corporation of the various decisions the previous government made and the comments made in this chamber by a coalition defence minister—that those men and women couldn't build a canoe. But we do have faith in Australia's industry capacity to contribute to our— (Time expired)

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Lambie, first supplementary?

Jacqui Lambie (Tasmania, Jacqui Lambie Network) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

A number of Australian businesses last night told me they have set up shop in the US, in the UK and in other countries. They advised me that their success overseas is not recognised here and that even though they have products that are fit for purpose, cost effective and generally excellent, they are all considered too risky by the Department of Defence. Why are Australian companies being forced offshore to succeed?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

(—) (): I might pick up the second-to-last point because that probably goes to the nub of the question—risk. Obviously, we are not an economy nor a military the size of the US military, nor do we have an industrial base of the scale that the United States has. What we can do is what we do well. We can focus on those things that we can do well and that we must do well—those areas where you have to have the sovereign capability onshore—and that's what the government is doing. I don't know what technologies you were referring to when those companies make an assessment that they've had to go offshore because the Department of Defence considers it too risky. The DoD has to make a decision, as you know. We put a lot of money and funds, as we should, into defence capability, and Defence has to make a judgement about which technology— (Time expired)

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Lambie, a second supplementary?

Jacqui Lambie (Tasmania, Jacqui Lambie Network) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Another message I heard—and this doesn't surprise me—from the Australian businesses up there last night was that once AUKUS was announced the money dried up. This appears especially true of those selling to the Army. The few items that they were selling were suddenly not required. Tenders were cancelled. Our own Australian suppliers were left high and dry, often after huge amounts of money had been spent on research and development. Minister, why can't this government see that blocking innovation in the Australian defence industry is weakening our sovereign capabilities and making us less secure?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Lambie. I can understand why there might be companies who will be disappointed with the government's determination and decision to make sure that the very substantial resource allocation is focused on the things that the DSR—the Defence strategic reviewoutlines as Australia really needing. And I appreciate that there will be private sector firms who have a different view to that. I think the authors of the DSR, Sir Angus and Mr Smith, made very clear their assessment of what was required and of which capability needs to be focused on, and that did require some hard decisions. Those hard decisions in relation to some capability are made in the context of increasing allocation to other capabilities, including submarines, for the strategic reasons that the Deputy Prime Minister has outlined.