Larissa Waters (Queensland, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Before I start my question I want to, on behalf of the Greens, convey my deep condolences to all of you for your loss. I'm so sorry to hear of Ms Peta Murphy's passing.

My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Climate Change and Energy, Minister Wong. The world's largest annual climate talks are currently underway in the United Arab Emirates, and this year's president of the climate COP, Sultan Al Jaber, has claimed that there is no science indicating that a phase-out of fossil fuels is needed to restrict global heating to 1½ degrees. This is directly at odds with the position of UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres, who said to COP delegates:

The science is clear:

The 1.5-degree limit is only possible if we ultimately stop burning all fossil fuels.

Not reduce.

Not abate.

Phaseout – with a clear timeframe …

Does the Australian government support the UN Secretary-General and the world's climate scientists in condemning this harmful fossil fuel industry spin?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

We support our targets, which include in excess of 82 per cent renewables in our grid by 2030 and net zero by 2050. I've said in this chamber to you, Senator, and to others in your party that we recognise the scale of the transformation of Australia's energy grid and energy sources that is required for that. Australia is a very fossil fuel intensive economy, and we've benefited economically from that over many decades, but that is no longer the world in which we live, and we have to live in a world where we can thrive in a net zero economy. That means a massive transformation. Unlike the Greens—we have a difference of views about how to achieve that.

The approach from the Greens seems to be that you just stop. We say that you actually have to shift. You have to generate new capacity in renewables. The measures that Mr Bowen announced the week before last or last week—I'm sorry, I'm losing the weeks towards the end of the year—in terms of capacity investment are designed to do that. A lot is said internationally; a lot is said domestically. If I may say, I think too much of the climate debate has been a lot of rhetoric and not enough about policy. We're interested in policy that actually transforms the Australian economy so we can be the renewable energy superpower that we have sought to be for so many years, but it has never been delivered.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Waters, a first supplementary?

Larissa Waters (Queensland, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I note the five coal and gas approvals issued by this government. This year's COP president, Sultan Al Jaber, is also the chief executive of the United Arab Emirates state-owned oil company, ADNOC. ADNOC has the biggest oil expansion plans of any fossil fuel company in the world. Does the government agree that an oil executive holding the COP presidency constitutes a serious conflict of interest and, as Al Gore has said, an abuse of public trust?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

In relation to the quip at the start, I'd say, 'QED.' It's precisely the sort of response that there always is from the Greens.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! The question has been asked.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You're not actually interested in transformation. You're not interested in the economic policies which are required to ensure that we shift to renewables. You want a political protest over certain issues. I'm not going to respond to the assertions made in much of that. I'm not familiar with some of the assertions that you're making. We are responsible for our approach. We have ambitious targets. They are going to be tough to meet. They are going to require sensible economic policy. They are going to require us to create the incentive for the market to invest, which has not occurred for a decade, and we are focused on ensuring that transformation takes place.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Waters, a second supplementary?

Larissa Waters (Queensland, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

More than 100 countries, including the US—which is the world's biggest oil and gas producer—already support a phase-out of fossil fuels. Will the Australian government join more than 100 countries at COP28 to ensure that a fossil fuel phase-out is included in the final agreement, or will you continue to side with coal, oil and gas companies?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'm always interested the binaries that the Greens decide to put up.

Janet Rice (Victoria, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

No, it's called science!

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

No, they are the binaries that you choose to put up in order to make political points that don't actually do anything on the climate. I think our position of 82 per cent renewables by 2030 is a demonstration of the effort we are making. You may think that there's some switch that the world can throw.

Why don't you yell a bit more? I'm sure that'll fix the climate, Senator Whish-Wilson. The reality is your party does not have a single policy that I can see that will actually transform the economy. You want political protest and you want slogans but not any policy about actually transforming the energy grid or the economy, which is a tough job, and it is one we are focused on.