Varun Ghosh (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I move an amendment to Senator McKim's amendment to the opposition's second reading amendment:

Omit "5 August 2024", substitute "3 July 2024".

Sarah Hanson-Young (SA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I rise to contribute to this important debate in relation to the future of the National Disability Insurance Scheme. I would like to endorse all of the comments made by my Greens parliamentary colleagues. Senator McKim has moved an amendment to the second reading motion which would refer the National Disability Insurance Scheme Amendment (Getting the NDIS Back on Track No. 1) Bill 2024, and the amendments to the bill circulated by the government, to a further inquiry. This is absolutely essential because this is an important piece of legislation and yet the government has dumped on the table a whole list of new amendments which the previous, very short running inquiry was not able to consider. We need to know what the impacts on our own home states of these amendments are going to be. That is why we also want to ensure that an inquiry will consider the responses and the positions of each of the states and territories around the country. That is absolutely fundamental. In my home state of South Australia, the state government will be looking at this and wondering where they fit in. South Australians want to know where they fit in. In fact, Australians right around the country want to know, if the government is going to put a big wrecking ball through the NDIS, what is going to be left for them. Who is going to pick up the pieces? What does this actually mean for the future?

This is an important scheme. It's a scheme that gives dignity to millions of Australians because they either live with a disability or have a loved one who is living with a disability. They need to be supported. They shouldn't have to beg and scrape and cry out for the support they need. It is absolutely important that we get this right.

The committee that previously examined this piece of legislation actually wanted to conduct further investigation. But, of course, because the government controls legislative committees in this current system, the government didn't want to have a further enquiry so they shut it down, and now they are trying to ram this bill through today. I urge the government to allow the committee process, the Senate process, to do its job properly. Over the winter break, we will ensure that we look carefully at this legislation. We will call the right witnesses from states and territories, we will look at the implications and impacts of the government amendments, and we will consider whether this is fit for purpose and whether this is the right way to go.

At the moment, what we know is that this legislation has been rushed and that it does not have the support of even states and territories at this point in time. That does not bode well for vulnerable Australians who are living with a disability or who have a loved one who has a disability. They are going to be left in the lurch. So we can't support the government's amendment to their referral date. Next Wednesday is a joke, frankly. We need to make sure we have the winter break. We call it a 'break' but, actually, our senators—particularly Senator Steele-John—will be working his backside off on this issue, because it is important. He won't be having a break over winter. He will be working hard to get into the detail of this legislation.

Glenn Sterle (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I can assure you that goes for all senators in this building. Thank you, Senator Hanson-Young. Senator Ruston.

Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Health and Aged Care) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I too stand to make my contribution to the debate on the motion relating to the National Disability Insurance Scheme Amendment (Getting the NDIS Back on Track No. 1) Bill 2024. The coalition have always been of the view that we support sensible measures in this bill, measures the coalition actually sought to implement when we were in government; at the time, Labor campaigned against it. These sensible measures were put forward by a senator in this place, Senator Reynolds, because we believe that we need to protect and preserve the scheme's integrity and ensure the sustainability of the system to allow it to continue to improve the lives of some of Australia's most vulnerable.

I think there wouldn't be anybody in Australia who would not see that as a worthy outcome. However, insufficient time has been provided for proper consultation on this bill with the sector and the wider community who have already expressed significant and wide-ranging misgivings about the contents of this piece of legislation. It is the purpose and duty of the Senate to take this opportunity and have a more thorough investigation of a very significant bill, a bill that will have a very significant impact on the lives of many Australians who live with disability. So we do not support this bill being pushed through this place without adequate consultation. And I have to say that this government is building up a bit of a track record on this. We are seeing legislation shoved through this place and policy announced before the necessary stakeholders have been consulted. This is just another one example of that. We've had 2½ days of hearings on a massive bill that has massive consequences. The lack of detail provided by the government for this bill means that those significant concerns have not been able to be considered.

Given there is a huge and broad consensus about the need for greater consideration, the coalition will reiterate its willingness to work with the government and others in this place, including the Greens and the crossbench. It is really disappointing that the government has sought to reject a very reasonable request for an extension of the reporting date and for a meaningful hearing with the National Disability Insurance Agency, the very organisation that oversees the implementation of this extraordinary—and first in the world—insurance scheme to look after and support Australians with a disability. It seems to me to be—well, it is—an absolute disgrace. That the Labor Party will not allow proper time for further scrutiny of this bill reflects really badly on them, because 660,000 Australians actually rely on the NDIS. They are 660,000 of Australia's most vulnerable people, who will be impacted by the changes that are being proposed by this bill, and this government doesn't think a few more weeks is necessary for us to make sure that we thoroughly consider this bill.

We are absolutely, and always have been, fully committed to the NDIS. We know that Labor underinvested in the NDIS when it was first established and are failing to invest in unmet needs of people with disability. In opposition, Labor stood on the way of the coalition when we made attempts to put the scheme on a sustainable footing. Bill Shorten even accused the coalition of 'pearl-clutching kabuki theatre', claiming that the NDIS was 'tracking just as predicted' and that the coalition was 'hyping fictional cost blowouts'. I have to say that it is really quite distressing for us to be in the position we are in here today of having to force the government to actually allow proper consideration of its own bill. I condemn the government for this action and commend the referral of the bill.

Raff Ciccone (Victoria, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I just want to make a brief contribution it to the bill before us today, the National Disability Insurance Scheme Amendment (Getting the NDIS Back on Track No. 1) Bill 2024. For the past three days this week we've heard all the different ways in which those opposite want to stop the NDIS getting back on track. The bill that we're debating here in the Senate is one of the most important bills currently before us. The legislation that it underpins is also some of the most comprehensively consulted on in the Commonwealth's history.

The bill will ensure that the NDIS is here for many future generations and for all Australians who need it most. What those opposite have suggested this week is nothing more than time-wasting politicisation of the National Disability Insurance Scheme. It's also amazing to see the contributions by some in this place when it comes to taxpayers' money being wasted. The unholy alliance that is now developing between the Liberals and the Greens senators will cost Australians almost $1.1 billion in paying for an unnecessary two-month delay to vital NDIS legislation. At the same time as this costly delay, the Liberals and the Greens members of the Senate Community Affairs Legislation Committee have also made plans to visit Brazil and the Americas. The only way in which I can describe this is that it's a two-week junket, to be frank.

It is just amazing to see the attitudes of senators in this place—

Glenn Sterle (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'm sorry, Senator Ciccone. Do you have a point of order, Senator Scarr.

Paul Scarr (Queensland, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Multicultural Engagement) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'm quite aggrieved. That's a slur, a personal reflection, on a number of senators who can be immediately identified as members of that committee, and I think it is unparliamentary to comment upon the overseas visits and delegations of committees of the Senate. I think it really is unparliamentary and it should be withdrawn.

Tim Ayres (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Assistant Minister for Trade) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

If you require a submission from me on the point of order, I would just make the point that at no point did Senator Ciccone name individual senators. It is entirely appropriate for a senator to contrast the approaches of parties in this place and the different priorities in terms of travel overseas, alternative approaches to the machinery of the Senate and consideration of Senate business over the delivery of important reforms for disabled Australians. In my view, my submission is that Senator Ciccone's comments were entirely appropriate and within standing orders.

Glenn Sterle (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On the same point of order, Senator Henderson?

Sarah Henderson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Education) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Just on the point of order, it is clear that Senator Ciccone, by naming the committee, has identified the members of the committee. It's a proper foundation of law, including defamation law, that when a group of identifiable peoples are named then it is right and proper that, as a courtesy to the Senate, this should be withdrawn. It is inappropriate. It is unparliamentary. I think it would be appropriate that this be withdrawn.

Glenn Sterle (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Just hold your horses. Just hang on. I'm really keen to rule on the original point of order. Senator Ruston, do you have a point of order again?

Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Health and Aged Care) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I would seek that Senator Ayres withdraw his previous comment.

Glenn Sterle (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I will help you out, actually. Let's go to you, Senator Ayres. I didn't hear what you were saying—

Tim Ayres (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Assistant Minister for Trade) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I had already indicated prior to Senator Ruston's entirely proper injunction against what it is that I said, I cheerfully withdrew then and I withdraw again.

Glenn Sterle (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you very much. Now that we're all back in love, that's fine. I'm going to get back to the original point of order. On the original point of order, Senator Ciccone may wish to clarify a little bit more, but I will give Senator Ciccone the opportunity to carry on and see where he wants to go from here.

Raff Ciccone (Victoria, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I like to listen to you and I'm happy to withdraw, but it still does not take away from this place that there is an unnecessary delay in this legislation that is currently before the Senate. That is the point that this government is simply trying to make. After publicly calling on the Albanese government to take action to safeguard the future sustainability of the NDIS and get the scheme back on track, what are we seeing now? The Liberals have joined forces with the Greens to delay the legislation and go on a study tour. I think that is a fair assessment of what is happening here. The Liberal amendment earlier called for a two-month delay—

Glenn Sterle (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

A point of order, Senator Hughes?

Hollie Hughes (NSW, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Mental Health and Suicide Prevention) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

He is misleading the Senate, because the committee delegation that is going that is led by Senator Pratt is actually the references committee, and the legislation committee—

Glenn Sterle (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There is no point of order. Resume your seat. Senator Ciccone, you have the call.

Hollie Hughes (NSW, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Mental Health and Suicide Prevention) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

No, he's referring to the wrong committee.

Glenn Sterle (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I have instructed the senator to resume her seat. Her microphone is turned off.

Raff Ciccone (Victoria, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you very much for the protection, Acting Deputy President. As I was saying, the Liberal amendment earlier called for a two-month delay so that the government's bill can go back to the Senate committee for more consultation. The Liberal-Greens Senate alliance will have a $1.1 billion financial cost to the scheme. That's right—a $1.1 billion financial cost to the scheme. But, most importantly, it will also have a human cost, allowing people with disability across Australia to continue to be exploited by dodgy providers and criminals. The delay will stop the government from using its NDIS legislation to close loopholes in the operation of the scheme. What we know is that the delays will cost Australians $663 every single minute, $1 million every single hour, $24 million every single day and $160 million every single week. It could have been passed; we have wasted $70 million already. A two-month delay on the passage of the NDIS bill means a $1.06 billion increase to NDIS expenditure over the forward estimates.

All the interjections that we are hearing is because those opposite and the Australian Greens are embarrassed about their conduct in this place.

Glenn Sterle (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! I will just remind especially my left-hand side here that interjections are disorderly. I allow a little bit of free rein, but, quite frankly, my left ear can't stand much more of the tones coming out of one particular senator on that side. I would ask that you give the opportunity for the speaker to be heard in silence. I will just clean that ear out!

Raff Ciccone (Victoria, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

With the 15 seconds that I have left—this is a real cost to the lives of people with a disability. This is money that could help people with disability thrive and be supported by our world-leading scheme. The numbers don't lie.

Glenn Sterle (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order, Senator Ciccone. It saddens me to tell you that the time for debate has expired. We shall now move to two-minute statements.