Jacqui Lambie (Tasmania, Jacqui Lambie Network) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I move:

That the Senate take note of the report.

I rise to speak on the Boots on the ground: raising resilience report. I want to thank my fellow senators and say a big thankyou to the secretariat of the Senate Select Committee on Australia's Disaster Resilience. The committee was established in November 2022 to inquire into Australia's preparedness, response and recovery workforce models, as well as considering alternative models for disaster response and recovery.

There have been an unprecedented number of natural disasters over the past few years, and the science is clear: it is only going to get worse. Some of these communities have not only got hit once or twice; they're now, I reckon, about today, getting hit a third time—just one after another after another. Research by KPMG found that, in 2022, 18 million Australians were living in areas impacted by at least one natural disaster, and, in some cases, multiple events within three years.

Over the last 18 months, members of the committee have heard firsthand from Australians struggling to get communities back on track after floods and bushfires. The committee and I met with many of these impacted communities, and I would like to thank all those Australians for sharing with the committee their thoughts, their experiences and their advice and, at some times, their heart and their soul. For some that had been hit two or three times, I can assure you it took psychological strength to come in and go back over their tragedy. I give all credit to those Australians who did that, and I say, 'Thank you.' Some of those Australians had lost everything. Some of them were still living in caravans and tents, 12 months, 18 months or two years later. Some of them had given up and just moved away. And many—too many—are still starting to rebuild their lives. Hearing from these Australians at the coalface of these disasters was powerful. Their resilience, quick thinking and downright bravery brought a lot of us to tears—let alone the lives that were saved when ordinary Australians put their own on the line.

The committee cannot direct the government to back our recommendations in, and of course we can't direct where they put their funding, but I would encourage them to take a close look at the committee's report. If the government is serious about protecting communities across the country, they are going to have to find a lot more money to make this happen, I can assure you.

According to the CSIRO, the concept of building back better would be a good start. And, if you actually did it properly, it would be phenomenal, because I was not seeing that during our time out there. If you do not get that infrastructure correct in the first place, you will continue to rebuild, and that will cost us a lot more money in the long run. Stop taking shortcuts. You have no time left for shortcuts. You've got to do it properly in the first place.

We need to know what money is available and what more needs to be done, and the money has to be distributed transparently and fairly so it's available to all communities that need it. All levels of government need to be better connected. Our three tier system creates a lot of problems. There is a big disconnect between federal, state and local government, especially local government. We need a national asset register so we know what we have and what can be deployed quickly to communities in need. We are miles off this. And not only do we need to think about the federal and state government assets; we need to think about the suitable local community and private assets that are out there. I don't think you're joining the dots very well, I'll be honest with you. The disaster recovery funding arrangements need to be amended so money can be set aside for emergency payments that can be available a lot quicker than what they're getting right now. Time is not on your side, when you are hit with flood and fire.

We heard from the councils, who are being left with huge bills because they had to clear huge piles of rubbish off the streets. There aren't many councils out there with a lot of money to spend, and, when they get fire trucks and other equipment, they have to pay to maintain them. That includes servicing and parts, and it also includes operators. It's great that you guys in here or at state level are providing this equipment, but you don't provide anything else with it, when the local councils out there, many of them in rural and regional areas, have hardly any money at all to sustain them. That's rubbish. I don't know what planet you're living on. That's never going to happen. It's just not. At lot of this equipment is sitting there and has hardly never been used. It's really shameful.

What's more, they often have to spend hours filling out grant applications, and it often takes weeks for them to get a response. When you're sitting in floodwater, you don't have time to apply for grants. Come on! It shouldn't be that difficult when people's lives are in despair, when their lives have been turned upside down. We're really doing a miserable job of it. We seriously are. I'm not having a go at you guys over here. I know it's been everyone in this, but we've got to do so much better at this. We really do.

This is what really bothers me more than anything: the biggest message the committee got from everyone was the lack of volunteers and the ageing population of our volunteers. We have a problem in this country with volunteers. It's not happening. When a disaster hits, the Australian emergency service agencies act as the first responders protecting life and property, but this workforce is often underpinned, once again, by volunteers. The role of these volunteers cannot be understated; they are some of the most selfless, amazing Australians around, and I thank each and every one of them.

One of the committee's recommendations is that the Australian government consider amendments to the Fair Work Act 2009 to legislate time off for volunteers and for volunteers to be granted leave from employment like the provisions reservists get under the defence reserve service act. Volunteers need to be properly trained. Where the cost of relevant training is not, the Australian government should consider amendments to legislation, policy and guidelines so that volunteers working in organisations, such as state emergency and rural bushfire services, can claim at a minimum, at this point in time, deductions, training and courses that are part of their emergency volunteering.

I have to be honest with you, we are doing a really bad job at this. We are not doing enough work on the corporates. And the government of the day could do something about what is going on here with the Public Service. Start leading by example. Get these guys to put some boots on and encourage them to do it. You have to lead from here—and I'm sorry to tell the Public Service that—and say, 'Here are some boots; you need to go and put them on.' But we have to do something. One of the most critical things that I found in doing this for the 20 months was the volunteerism. We have a huge Public Service in this country, yet we're not preparing them and getting them ready and able to combat disaster. My goodness! How shameful are we. And I'll tell you what: there would be a few of us in these chambers that could actually go and put some boots on too and get trained up to be ready to go. It's got to be 'one in, all in'; otherwise, it's never going to work.

The government must consider how it can further support Disaster Relief Australia and other similar organisations with funding beyond 2026. They need stability. They can't plan for two years and then be left wondering whether they've got funding. It's just not working. It's an absolute failure. The other question is how the Australian government can further incorporate Disaster Relief Australia into its national disaster response arrangements and boost its numbers through partnerships with the Australian Defence Force and the Department of Veterans' Affairs.

We must find a way to incentivise young Australians to participate in volunteer organisations that provide support for disaster response and recovery. Once again, we are losing the volunteers; we're not gaining them. The numbers are falling, and they are falling quickly. Unfortunately, my generation and below are not signing up. How about that? You've got my generation, the next and the next out there. We have a massive gap; we have a hole. And, with all due respect to this generation that has been doing all the heavy lifting up here, they're getting on. It's not because they don't want to do the heavy lifting; their bodies just won't allow them to do it anymore. So we have a real problem and we need our young Australians. They're going to need to get on board. We need to be open and honest with them. We need to take responsibility for climate change and for what's happening out there and ask them to help us. We need to ask for their help.

Deborah O'Neill (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Lambie. Just for clarification: the Senate is taking note of the Select Committee on Australia's Disaster Resilience's Boots on the ground report—is that correct? Yes.

Jacqui Lambie (Tasmania, Jacqui Lambie Network) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I seek leave to continue my remarks later.

Deborah O'Neill (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I think the debate will continue, but I note that. Senator Davey, you have the call.

Perin Davey (NSW, National Party, Shadow Minister for Water) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I, too, rise to speak on the report from the Senate Select Committee on Australia's Disaster Resilience, Boots on the ground: raising resilience. It was an honour to be part of this committee and to hear from the many passionate, committed Australians who participated in the hearings, sharing their experience and sometimes sharing their trauma. I thank the chair, who listened to the suggestions from all of the committee about where public hearings should be held, what topics we needed to examine and how the committee would be run.

We heard from a range of witnesses from right across Australia and also New Zealand. The fact that we had 174 submissions from individuals, government agencies, not-for-profit volunteer organisations and charities demonstrates the wide interest in this issue and the communities' desire to find better solutions. We held 17 public hearings throughout Australia, hearing from councils, volunteer organisations, mental health groups, country and state fire brigades and emergency services, state and federal government departments and agencies, the Australian Defence Force, and universities and service clubs.

We travelled to areas impacted by severe flooding, such as Lismore and Ballina, where we heard of the significant burden on local governments of dealing with community trauma while also commencing the repair and recovery and rebuilding vital infrastructure. In Fitzroy Crossing, we heard of the challenges of dealing with very remote and Indigenous communities, that can often be cut off for a significant time, with the challenges of managing evacuees and their needs, as well as the resupply of isolated towns.

We visited the James Cook University cyclone testing centre to see how the independent research authority tests and reviews the performance of buildings and infrastructure in cyclones and other high-wind events. We also toured the Townsville regional emergency management centre, which is an example of absolute best practice in local, whole-of-community emergency management.

At the end of the hearings and the visits to disaster affected areas around Australia, I came, along with the committee, to the inevitable conclusion that there is no one single solution. There is no silver bullet and certainly there is no one size that fits all. Disasters vary in their delivery and their impact. Communities can and do respond in the most amazing ways, unique to their needs, while showcasing the Australian compassion and desire to help their mates. However, what's also evident is the physical and mental toll that the increasing numbers of floods and fires are having on the most willing and committed of people. Equally, we know we can't keep relying on our Defence Force to bail us out of every emergency. We must better equip and prepare our communities to help themselves.

One of the most common themes we heard, which my colleague Senator Lambie touched on, was the need for local councils to be included in every aspect of disaster preparation, recovery and rebuilding for their communities. At the end of the day, they are the ones on the ground; they are the ones receiving the phone calls and the calls for help. We need to make sure they are supported with preparation training and, post the disaster, are compensated in a timely manner. Byron Bay council suggested that local communities be given training in emergency coordination and risk mitigation, management and identification, to assist in preparation. We also heard from Disaster Relief Australia, who Senator Lambie spoke about, with their ability in preparedness exercises. We have recommended that Disaster Relief Australia be incorporated into our national disaster response arrangements.

We also heard that too often local councils were left with the job of repairing roads and infrastructure quickly, ensuring services were up and running as fast as possible, but they were also expected to meet the costs of doing so upfront in the hope that the compensation would eventually flow through. To be fair, it usually does, but the time lag between the two examples cannot be met all the time.

We heard about the floods in the Northern Rivers of New South Wales in 2022, and Lismore's mayor, Steve Krieg, told the committee that Lismore council was required to repair the main road to Nimbin, a community that had been all but cut off. But the upfront repair bill actually exceeded the amount of debt the council could carry. This issue has led to one of our recommendations: to allow a certain portion of disaster recovery funding to be apportioned upfront, or paid out upfront.

We also recommend that councils be allowed to build back better, because often we're going out and repairing the same road, flood after flood. But sometimes, just by allowing them to install a box culvert at the time of repair, that means we wouldn't have to go back. What a godsend that would be! We have recommended that the DRFA guidelines be tweaked and improved, and I wholeheartedly support that recommendation. I note that there is currently a review going on into the DRFA, and I would hope that that review makes the same recommendations.

Senator Lambie spoke about a serious concern, one that's not easily fixed: the declining number of volunteers across Australia. I thank every single volunteer that currently works with state emergency services, country fire authorities, rural fire authorities and similar organisations, including our charity organisations. We have a time-poor society, and often volunteering doesn't easily fit in. But we know that there are measures we can take.

There were some recommendations put forward to the committee about things like potentially looking at tax rebates or funding for professional development training that isn't met by a volunteer authority, or maybe someone upgrading from a general drivers licence to a medium rigid drivers licence will enable them to drive one of the Rural Fire Service trucks. We urge the government to look at those sorts of suggestions because, as the report says on page 62, 'Getting boots on the ground is important.' But we also acknowledge that so too is the mental health of our volunteers and our first responders. That is why we have made several recommendations to address our concerns about the ongoing toll of natural disasters on the mental health of our first responders and our volunteer service workers.

Again, I want to thank the committee—all of our committee. We worked exceptionally well together. We were very respectful in the way we went about this because emergency response is beyond politics. Emergency response is something that we need to do better, noting that there is, as I said earlier, no silver bullet. I want to thank the committee secretariat, who did an outstanding job getting us to some very remote areas of Australia and making sure that none of our time was wasted and that we heard from the right people in the right places.

We know that natural disasters will happen again, and we know they will always be a challenge, but the evidence we have been provided and that has been captured in this report does provide a platform that, if adopted, means we will do better next time. Thank you.

Tony Sheldon (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I also rise to speak on the Senate Select Committee on Australia's Disaster Resilience inquiry and the final report. I commend both the committee chair, Senator Lambie, and Senator Davey, as well as all the senators who were on that committee. The comments passed so far by Senators Lambie and Davey on this report have given important insights on the work done on this report and this inquiry. I certainly commend and strongly support a lot of the considerations of this report. I also commend the comments passed by the previous two speakers. It's incredibly important that we also commend our fellow committee members, the secretariate staff and everyone who shared evidence through 17 public hearings and the 175 submissions that were received.

Since the select committee was established in November 2022, I've had the privilege of hearing from responders, from recovery agencies, from peak bodies and charities, from unions, from state and territory governments, from local councils and from disaster impacted communities across Australia. I'd particularly like to acknowledge the individuals recovering from disasters who shared their personal stories and reflections with us, despite the many challenges they continue to face. I'd also like to thank the frontline responders and defence personnel the committee heard from. They shared their experiences and expertise and that gave us some wonderful insights, but also some very moving insights into the challenges they see in this space.

A key theme that emerged throughout the inquiry was the importance of empowering communities in disaster recovery and response by strengthening and harnessing local capacity, leadership and also knowledge. This was outlined by the emergency management and public safety manager of the City of Moreton Bay, Mr Christopher Barnes, who said:

… locally led responses provide the most effective mechanism to manage and respond to disasters in our communities.

This was echoed by the mayor of Lismore, Mr Steve Krieg, who explained:

… local people should be driving their local recovery; it is as simple as that.

Evidence suggested that community led responses and recovery were best achieved by arrangements that cascade upwards through local, state and national frameworks. Queensland Inspector-General of Emergency Management, Mr Alistair Dawson, characterised these best-practice arrangements as follows: locally led, regionally coordinated, state facilitated and supported by the Commonwealth.

Another key theme that arose throughout the inquiry was the need to continue optimising disaster funding arrangements so they remain sustainable and equitable into the future. This was particularly important for councils, many of whom spoke about the financial impact that increasingly intense disasters as a result of climate change are having on local governments. As president of the Australian Local Government Association, Linda Scott explained, '… there is a mismatch between the amount of local government infrastructure exposed to climate change risks and the resources that local government have to carry out effective adaptation to manage these risks.' Mr David Ross Crawford, a council worker at Lismore City Council, described the situation, saying, 'Being starved of funds over a long period means it is getting harder and harder to provide the service to the community.' Councils, along with not-for-profits, charities and community organisations, also raised the complexity of application and acquittal processes, the lack of funding transition once programs end, and the need for greater focus on preparedness, mitigation and resilience in funding models.

Evidence throughout the inquiry highlighted the important role that industry, charities, non-government organisations and volunteer groups undertake in disaster mitigation, response and recovery. For example, we heard about the recovery work that Disaster Resilience Australia is doing to support communities across the country, as well as the school programs being run by young change agents to empower disaster-impacted youth, giving them back some control and helping them to make a difference in their communities. Jali Tan Costello, a young change agent from Lismore, described her experience after getting involved following the 2022 floods. She said, 'The programs … offered me important opportunities to reconnect, activate my resilience and find purpose in my learning. As a class, our opinion was valued. We instigated change and our impact was far-reaching.' Some lovely words. These are two examples of the many ways in which civil society organisations are supporting communities, leading witnesses to suggest the need for better integration into response and recovery structures, coordination and support. The CEO of National Hazards Research Australia, Mr Andrew Gissing, said, 'There is a need to adopt a whole-of-community approach to disaster management to further embrace capability for other sectors through collaboration and information sharing.'

Another key issue that emerged throughout the inquiry was the decline in volunteerism, and the importance of strengthening the volunteer workforce into the future, particularly encouraging greater participation of youth. As explained by the regional director of Queensland State Emergency Services, Mr Daryl Camp, 'Unfortunately with increased demand on volunteer services to respond to the ever-increasing number of events and the longer duration of events, we see a negative impact on volunteer numbers. As volunteer numbers decrease, we are also seeing a rise in the number of requests for assistance coming in.' Witnesses spoke about different strategies to recruit and co-ordinate volunteers across the country and of the need to improve coordination and management of spontaneous volunteers. Suggestions included the possible introduction of employment incentives and volunteering schemes in the public and corporate sectors, as well as the further expansion of existing cadet programs run by state and territory response agencies.

Evidence throughout the inquiry suggested that our current emergency systems and framework should continue to be reinforced, strengthened and better coordinated. Several witnesses advocated for working within and improving current arrangements rather than trying to create new models, as outlined by Carlene Yorke, President, National Council for Fire and Emergency Services, who said:

The current emergency and disaster response system provides an agile, community based workforce for disaster and emergency response that is interoperable across the country and can be and often is deployed across jurisdictional boundaries to provide national resilience. AFAC advocates for working within existing arrangements rather than trying to create a bureaucracy of layers of management for emergency and disaster response … We think this is best done by reinforcing existing arrangements—

and subsequently by improving them.

Throughout the inquiry, witnesses across Australia also raised the important auxiliary role that the ADF plays in response to disaster events. Mr Chuck Berger from the Kimberley Development Commission described the ADF as providing 'not only material support but also a reassuring presence'. As Air Vice Marshal Stephen Chappell summarised, there is a need to balance Defence's mission to 'defend Australia and its interests' with its 'support to civil communities and the Commonwealth, states and territories in our population's hours of need'. The Albanese government has been progressing several important bodies of work that address the key themes and issues raised throughout the select committee inquiry. The committee inquiry will be again important to reinforce the very issues that the committee has brought forward.

We as a government have enhanced the Commonwealth's capabilities and capacity across civil society to ensure Australia is prepared to face the increasing number of frequent and severe natural disasters due to climate change and reduce our reliance on the Defence Force in times of disaster. We've conducted several reviews with the aim of improving governance and funding arrangements, including the Independent Review of Commonwealth Disaster Funding, commonly known as the Colvin review, and the Independent Review of National Natural Disaster Governance Arrangements, or the Glasser review, and of course the Disaster Recovery Funding Arrangements Review, which is ongoing. We have rolled out the Disaster Ready Fund, which is providing up to $200 million per year for natural disaster resilience and risk reduction initiatives, helping to improve local resilience and capacity. We held the first ever National Disaster Preparedness Summit and spent an additional $11.4 billion in the 2024-25 budget to continue supporting ongoing recovery efforts across Australia.

Linda Reynolds (WA, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I too rise today to discuss the final report from the Senate Select Committee on Australia's Disaster Resilience, which was tabled last week. First, I commend our chair, Senator Lambie, for her leadership, her passion and her commitment. It was a very well-led committee, so thank you, Senator Lambie. I will also start by thanking the secretariat. As Senator Davey said, this was a very complex and long inquiry that involved travelling to communities impacted by natural disaster rather than just talking to officials in capital cities. I also thank Ashleigh from my office for her passion and commitment in the preparation of the report and the inquiry.

It is very clear to me that we put a lot of time, effort, passion and money into disaster response, resilience and recovery, but I believe, after this committee, hearing the evidence and drawing on my own experience, that as Australians we're doing it all wrong. It is very, very clear to me that, instead of a top-down approach, we have to flip it around and start helping and supporting communities to become more resilient and able to be their own first responders. We have to start assisting them to do smarter things that they know need to be done but we don't listen to them on; we impose outcomes and responses on them. One of the most impactful hearings that we had was in the town of Fitzroy Crossing, which had just recently suffered from such catastrophic floods. It is no surprise that Western Australia, particularly the north-west, frequently faces the harsh impact of cyclones and persistent lows. This is nothing new, and it is something that is getting more severe and will keep happening.

My comments in relation to this report will focus on Western Australia. While I think there is much more to be done in Western Australia on a bipartisan basis, my comments are certainly not in any way reflecting on DFES. DFES does an extraordinary job in Western Australia, as do all of our emergency services—the ones who do it full time and those who are volunteers across our communities.

Having served as the minister for emergency management federally, I've had more than my fair share of witnessing the aftermath of floods, fires and cyclones and also the COVID-19 emergency. Overwhelmingly, as a former minister for defence and servicewomen myself, I was very impacted by the comments—not just in Fitzroy Crossing but, again, across the country—of people recounting their stories of when they heard a RAAF Hercules aircraft or they saw an Army vehicle drive in. They had tears in just recounting, 'I knew that things would be okay,' and inevitably they were. In Fitzroy Crossing, Mr Chuck Berger, the CEO of the Kimberley Development Commission, said:

… the ADF provided not only material support but also a reassuring presence. I will never forget iconic images of Fitzroy Crossing children watching, wide-eyed and full of excitement, the arrival of ADF Chinook helicopters.

The committee recommends that the Commonwealth enhance its engagement with local communities to leverage their knowledge for flood prevention and recovery through conducting community forums and consultations and incorporating traditional knowledge in flood management plans. It was very clear, in Fitzroy Crossing, that the local Aboriginal communities knew that this catastrophe was coming, but their comments and their pleas fell on deaf ears in Perth. Ms Sarah Parriman, the then deputy CEO of the Kimberley Land Council, said:

Aboriginal people should be listened to a little bit more. They know country. They know how the water moves—rainfall might cause flooding down there, but where is that going to go?

Again, that is something that we don't listen to nearly enough in terms of capturing local events.

Another issue that was of concern in Western Australia is the fact that, after natural disasters, the current Labor government doesn't do reviews. A great feature we noted when we went around to other states was just how quickly state governments, for example in Queensland and New South Wales, do reviews to capture lessons so that they can start implementing them for the next round of disasters. While it's not in the report, I would call on the Western Australia state government and the opposition to do more to capture the lessons and set up an organisation that is responsible not only for capturing the lessons but for coordinating responses.

In Fitzroy Crossing, some described feeling as if they were in a fishbowl in those first early days. With many officials travelling to the disaster impacted community, they felt that it was just to look at them and then move on. Vicki O'Donnell, the CEO of the Kimberley Aboriginal Medical Services, said:

I appreciate that we have a State Government and I respect the government, but, gee whiz, we had every minister possible visit. Fitzroy Crossing had more ministers in five weeks than they have had in 50 years.

As Emily Carter, the CEO of the Marninwarntikura Women's Resource Centre, said:

Initially we had every Commonwealth and state government minister flying in here every second day saying, 'We feel for you; we know what you're going through, and we are in it for the long haul'—and then fly out again. We haven't seen or heard from them since.

There are overwhelming calls about the vulnerability of infrastructure in north-west Western Australia, especially critical roads, network and bridges. These concerns are well known and well documented but, as yet, unactioned. Single-lane bridges along national Highway 1, particularly in the north of Western Australia, are inadequate. All of these bridges must be reviewed and reinforced, because if one of those bridges goes out again, like in Fitzroy Crossing, the entire Highway 1 will be closed. The WA state Labor government have primary responsibility for identifying these risks and vulnerabilities. They have to do more, but so does the Commonwealth. Funding for the Tanami Road and the Outback Way must be expedited and reprioritised to improve connectivity and emergency response capability. Clare Smith, the CEO of the East Kimberley Chamber of Commerce and Industry, said:

If the Tanami Road had been sealed or at least made wet season proof we would have had secondary road access into the East Kimberley and the loss of the bridge wouldn't have affected us as severely as it has—

affected, as in they ran out of food and fuel and couldn't get medical attention.

Additionally, in WA, ports like Wyndham and Derby, essential for regional connectivity and emergency response, require changes to enhance their ability to receive food and emergency supplies in disaster situations. Similarly, airstrips need to be assessed and improved. In Fitzroy Crossing, guess where the airstrip was located? On a flood plain. So guess what happened when it flooded? The airstrip flooded and aircraft couldn't get in.

Michael McConachy, the managing director at Aviair and HeliSpirit, said:

The airstrip at Fitzroy Crossing partially went under water. When the ADF brought one of the Spartans in to land on it, it damaged the runway. They did three touch-and-goes and got sent away because the water table was so high. It restricted what we could fly in—

and also it restricted the evacuation procedures and options available.

Rebuilding is not enough. We must also focus on building back better once and for all, stronger and smarter, but doing it from the community up—talking to the community so that they can advise what is actually required. More robust communication networks are also essential during emergencies. Again, that was in evidence in Fitzroy Crossing. You don't put the power stations in the flood zone and you don't put the communication and telecom batteries on the flood plains or on a river plain, and they are exactly the sorts of things that had been done. Investment in technologies like portable satellite kits, mobile cell towers and hybrid power solutions—they can all significantly enhance local resilience, yet we're not doing it on a coordinated national basis.

Finally, I also want to mention that the National Emergency Management Stockpile is a great step forward, and I do commend the introduction of that. However, for Western Australia, as big as it is and as prone as it is to having its air, sea and land networks cut off—guess where Western Australia's stockpile is located? In Adelaide. So I would recommend strongly that we get one in Western Australia.