David Pocock (ACT, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Assistant Treasurer, Minster Gallagher. ASIC today released a new report examining the scam prevention, detection and responses of 15 banks outside of the big four. The results were alarming. ASIC found those 15 banks detected and stopped just 19 per cent of scam transactions by value. More than 20,000 of their customers footed the bill for 96 per cent of the money scammers stole last financial year. Only one-third of these banks had organisation-wide scam strategies. Many do not have an organisation-wide policy for reimbursement. Given that the ACCC has found that Australians lost $2.74 billion to scams last year alone, why are we yet to see legislation introduced to crackdown on this behaviour and compel a better response from the banks?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I must say I haven't seen the report from ASIC today, but I know that this has been a real priority for the Assistant Treasurer, even before he had the job, when in opposition. We could see what scams were doing across the community, in particular where they affected a lot of elderly Australians. The Assistant Treasurer has had a number of forums, going around the country. The audience is always packed, and it's always an older crowd, hungry for information about how to manage scams.

I'm not sure I'm in the position to give you information specifically in response to the ASIC report, but I can say we have been increasing our investment in addressing the scams, including in the recent budget where we put in over $60 million to combat scams and online fraud through the introduction of new codes which spell out the responsibility of the private sector. The industry codes, of course, start with banks, telcos and digital platforms and will require them to have measures in place to prevent, detect, disrupt, stop and report scams. This will be complemented by regulatory enforcement action and penalties for noncompliance. The codes also provide a pathway for consumers to be compensated if a bank, telco or digital platform has done the wrong thing. The scam's code framework has been consulted on across Minister Rowland's and Minister Jones's portfolio, and we'll bring legislation to the parliament this year.

I'll just provide a bit of extra information in the time I have left. The money that we put in this year's budget builds on the $86.5 million we put in last year's budget to invest in scam prevention across ASIC, ACCC and the ACMA.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Pocock, first supplementary?

David Pocock (ACT, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, I note that the government put out a consultation paper in November and then did consultation in January. That's more than six months ago now. We haven't seen an exposure draft. We haven't seen any consultation on the detail of any potential legislation, just reports that it has been delayed. I'm glad to hear it's this year, but what I'm hearing is that the banks are winning in this and putting pressure on Minister Jones to delay it. Is that true?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

No, that isn't true, and I don't think there's anyone in this parliament who has done more to prevent scams and to raise awareness about scams and to educate consumers about scams than Minister Jones. In all seriousness, he has done more than every other member of this place put together.

The community is—

Sarah Henderson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Education) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That's a shocking indictment on Minister Rowland.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is not, Senator Henderson. Honestly, you're always looking to find some nasty angle. It does nothing. It's always—it's the way you approach everything. You wake up and you think, 'What nasty interjection can I place on that?'

The issue is scams. As I said earlier, Minister Rowland and Minister Jones worked together on this. Minister Jones has been leading on scams as Assistant Treasurer, as you would expect, but he works in partnership with everybody. There will be legislation because this government takes scams and scam prevention seriously. (Time expired)

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Pocock, second supplementary?

David Pocock (ACT, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Minister. Again, it's great to hear that it will be by the end of the year. Given that it has been six months of radio silence, will you commit to consulting openly on any proposed legislation without the use of NDAs, as we've seen has become a habit of the Albanese Labor government?

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I appreciate the opportunity to address that point, because I notice there has been some commentary on that. The government consults widely and openly and transparently on a number of issues. NDAs are used from time to time where there are commercial consequences from other information being available. They are usually the commercial consequences of other businesses who want to engage with government, and I think that's reasonable in those circumstances.

On the scam front, I would imagine there will be further consultation. Obviously, the legislation coming in allows for further consultation, including with members of parliament. And I would just say, in closing, the work that Minister Jones and Minister Rowland have put into addressing scams is already showing benefits. It's estimated that in 2023 scams cost Australians $2.7 billion, which was down from $3.2 billion in 2022.