Malcolm Roberts (Queensland, Pauline Hanson's One Nation Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Climate Change and Energy, Senator McAllister. Minister, during evening and morning peak hours, electricity generation from industrial solar and wind averages just 10 per cent of rated capacity, because solar doesn't work in the dark, and wind goes quiet at night. Big batteries can transfer electricity from daytime to the evening peak. Minister, how much battery capacity is your government planning to build to maintain electricity supply between sunset and sunrise?

Jenny McAllister (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Emergency Management) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Roberts for the question. The senator is right to point to the fact that Australia's electricity system is changing. We have, as I think most senators understand, a fleet of ageing coal-fired power stations that require replacement. I can tell you they are not getting any more reliable. In fact, over the last year, I don't think there's been a day when we haven't had a circumstance where at least one of the coal-fired power generators in the national electricity market has been offline for one kind of maintenance or another. Of course, this arises because we went through nearly a decade when the coalition, while in government, did not land an energy policy. They had 22 policies; none of them landed. Our task as government—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister McAllister, please resume your seat. Senator Roberts?

Malcolm Roberts (Queensland, Pauline Hanson's One Nation Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I have a point of order. Standing order 72(3)(c) says, 'Answers shall be directly relevant to each question.' I asked about how much battery capacity your government is planning to build to maintain electricity supply between sunset and sunrise.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I will draw the minister to your question.

Jenny McAllister (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Emergency Management) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Of course, our task is actually to restore some measure of order to the energy system so that the investors who build the generation capacity that is necessary to power homes and businesses have the confidence to invest. And that is what the Capacity Investment Scheme has been designed to do. We have just been through a round of the Capacity Investment Scheme where we received very significant commitments to underwriting very significant battery capacity. We do understand the significance of this technology. What the experts tell us is that the most cost-effective way to establish a national energy market that can meet the energy requirements of Australian homes and businesses is a combination of wind, of solar, of batteries and of gas, and that is the policy setting that we— (Time expired)

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Roberts, first supplementary?

Malcolm Roberts (Queensland, Pauline Hanson's One Nation Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, you couldn't tell me the battery capacity your government is planning to build, so you may not be able to answer this question. But let's just say 'yes' or 'no', please. What is the capital cost of that battery backup, and how much of that bill will taxpayers pay? Simple.

Hon. Senators:

Honourable senators interjecting—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I will just wait for silence, particularly on my left. This is Senator Roberts's question.

Jenny McAllister (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Emergency Management) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I have indicated previously to questions asked by Senator Roberts in this chamber, the cost of the transition is regularly estimated out to 2050 by AEMO, and it is included in the integrated system plan, which is regularly published and updated. Different states have different arrangements in terms of the ownership and investment in generation, and so the investment that will take place will look different depending on the ownership arrangements that are in place across the national electricity market. However, we understand that there is a measure of support required from the Commonwealth government, and it is why we have put in place the Capacity Investment Scheme, which aims to provide support for those who are seeking to invest in new capacity, whether it is in batteries or other forms of generation in the national electricity market.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Roberts, second supplementary?

Malcolm Roberts (Queensland, Pauline Hanson's One Nation Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

So the minister cannot tell us the battery capacity required, nor the capital cost of that battery backup. Minister, AEMO is working off a figure of 60 gigawatt hours of storage at around $1 billion an hour, which is $60 billion. How much will electricity prices and supermarket prices rise as a result of having to spend that staggering amount of money?

Jenny McAllister (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Emergency Management) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Well, the one thing I can say is that we will take advice from the experts about the optimal investment that's necessary to build out the national electricity market. It's a different approach to the one taken by those opposite, because right now we have a coalition government whose plan is to invest taxpayers' money in the most expensive form—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, please resume your seat.

Bridget McKenzie (Victoria, National Party, Shadow Minister for Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You can't tell us how expensive yours will be!

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'm waiting, Senator McKenzie! Senator Roberts.

Malcolm Roberts (Queensland, Pauline Hanson's One Nation Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It's a point of order on relevance. I didn't ask about the coalition government, as you said. I asked about the Labor government now.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I will draw the minister to your question, Senator Roberts. And, while I have the attention of the chamber, I will ask senators, particularly those on my left, to listen in respectful silence. Minister McAllister.

Lidia Thorpe (Victoria, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You lefties need to listen!

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Thorpe, that includes you! Order! Minister, please continue.

Jenny McAllister (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Emergency Management) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thanks very much, President. The senator asked about our plans. The Capacity Investment Scheme will deliver 32 gigawatts of renewable and clean dispatchable capacity to fill emerging reliability gaps. The truth is that will put downward pressure on prices, because one of the consequences of the failed policies of those opposite is that we do have capacity capabilities that need to be filled because energy capacity is leaving the market and it has not been replaced. We are taking steps necessary to replace it. (Time expired)