Lidia Thorpe (Victoria, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is for the Minister for Indigenous Australians, Minister McCarthy. Minister, you've stated that one of your priorities is to stop politicians using First Peoples as a political football. Your government said it is committed to truth-telling. If we want to talk about truth, let's talk about how over 98 per cent of First People in this country have been wiped out in less than 300 years. There have been over 500 documented massacres. And our children are still being removed and locked up at growing rates. Minister, do you acknowledge that, since colonisation, governments have implemented genocidal policies against First Peoples?

Malarndirri McCarthy (NT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Indigenous Australians) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Thorpe, for the question. I think, as minister, it's probably my first question from you. What I will say is that the history of this—

Lidia Thorpe (Victoria, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It won't be the last.

Malarndirri McCarthy (NT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Indigenous Australians) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Well, the first at question time. You've had plenty in estimates; there's no doubt about that—and I'm sure there will be more to come. Certainly, the history of this country is fraught with policies that have impacted, very negatively, the lives of First Nations people, including the stolen generations, in terms of the high rates of removals from the 1800s right up to the 1970s. What this government has done is redress those issues in trying to work with the stolen generations reparations—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Thorpe, on a point of order?

Lidia Thorpe (Victoria, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Relevance: it was about genocidal policies against us. It wasn't about what her government is doing.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Thorpe, there was a significant preamble to the last part of your question which the minister is entitled to address and is addressing.

Lidia Thorpe (Victoria, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Well, people are watching!

Malarndirri McCarthy (NT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Indigenous Australians) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'm more than happy for people to watch. I think it's important that people should see what democracy is all about and how debates take place in this Senate—those that are sensible and those that are nonsensical. But I will say this: the policies of the past have impacted First Nations people. We are seeing that addressed in the redress, as I was saying to the Senate today, in terms of the stolen generations. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of families across Australia still traumatised by the policies of the day, by governments from way back in the 1800s through to the 1970s. I know that the parliament of Australia today is acutely aware of that. Was it the right thing to do?

Lidia Thorpe (Victoria, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Point of order on relevance—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The minister is being directly relevant to your question, Senator Thorpe.

Malarndirri McCarthy (NT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Indigenous Australians) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The trauma that many First Nations families experienced throughout that history still occurs today in this country. The trauma that impacts our families results in the high rates of removals of our children from their families. It also results in the high rates of incarceration in our justice systems across the country. And that is why the national agreement on Closing the Gap was implemented.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Thorpe, first supplementary?

Lidia Thorpe (Victoria, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The Bringing them home report concluded that the policies of the forcible removal of our children were genocidal in intent. Minister, do you agree with the finding of the Bringing them home report—that government actions in this country have constituted genocide?

Malarndirri McCarthy (NT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Indigenous Australians) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The Bringing them home report was a report that so many families, including my own family, gave evidence to. It was a report that took many years, took thousands of evidence. And what it did do—

Lidia Thorpe (Victoria, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Relevance: it's about genocide.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Thorpe, if I might explain—

Lidia Thorpe (Victoria, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I don't want you to explain. I just want her to answer the question.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Thorpe, resume your seat. To explain, you mentioned in the first part of your question, the Bringing them home report which the minister is entitled to confine her remarks to.

Senator Thorpe, you are not in a debate with me! You've raised the point of order. I've indicated to you there is no point of order. I'm going to invite the minister to continue.

Malarndirri McCarthy (NT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Indigenous Australians) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The Bringing them home report and the recommendations of the report were embraced by the Labor Party so much so that, in 2007, when Kevin Rudd became Prime Minister, one of the first things he did in the Australian parliament was to acknowledge the Bringing them home report, to answer the question of Senator Thorpe, to apologise—

Lidia Thorpe (Victoria, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

And what has that done? It's taken more kids out of our families than any—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator Thorpe, come to order!

Malarndirri McCarthy (NT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Indigenous Australians) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The Bringing them home report, which I encourage all senators to read, culminated in what happened when Prime Minister Kevin Rudd become Prime Minister—an acknowledgment of the historical horrors of the removal of First Nations people in this country. That continues today in terms of the redress for those families. I've written to hundreds and hundreds of families across this country in terms of what has happened to them.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Minister. The time—

Lidia Thorpe (Victoria, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What about 23,000 without home or care under your watch?

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, please resume your seat. Senator Thorpe, I'm trying to give you the respect you are entitled to as a senator in this place, but I would ask that you stop interjecting. I invite you to put your second supplementary.

Lidia Thorpe (Victoria, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As the new minister, you've said, 'Truth telling is important,' but you can't give a straight answer. When will you show some leadership and hold your own government to account for the ongoing slow and sophisticated eradication of our people, our children and our culture, or will you just continue to use the approved talking points that protect your colonial masters?

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Thorpe. Minister McCarthy.

Order, Senator Ciccone! Senator Thorpe is entitled to ask a question. You may not agree with it, but she is entitled to, like every senator in this place, and you will listen in respectful silence.

Malarndirri McCarthy (NT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Indigenous Australians) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I do think it's really unfortunate that Senator Thorpe does use the Senate as a place to cause further division for First Nations people in this country. I do believe that Senator Thorpe has a responsibility—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister McCarthy, please resume your seat. Senator Thorpe?

Lidia Thorpe (Victoria, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Point of order: what was that?

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Thorpe, that's not a point of order. Senator Thorpe, please resume your seat. Minister McCarthy, please continue.

Malarndirri McCarthy (NT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Indigenous Australians) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I will always use the Senate as an opportunity to bring about greater unity in this country and greater understanding, no matter how appalling our history has been, in terms of the high rates of removal—

Opposition senators interjecting—

And I ask the senators opposite to show some respect about the high rates of removal of First Nations children—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister McCarthy, please resume your seat. I have Senator Thorpe on her feet. Senator Thorpe.

Lidia Thorpe (Victoria, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

President, the point of order is on relevance to my question.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The minister is being relevant to your question, Senator Thorpe. You asked the minister about leadership. The minister is talking directly about leadership. Please resume your seat. Minister McCarthy.

Malarndirri McCarthy (NT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Indigenous Australians) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, President. I also thank Indigenous leaders and families across the country, especially in Victoria in terms of the push for treaty and the Yoorrook commission, and all of those working across the other states and jurisdictions in terms of the high rates of removal of First Nations people. I think it's important. We are doing the best that we can, and I do urge all senators—Senator Thorpe included—to remember that this is a place to use for the betterment of our country.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

President, I ask that further questions be placed on the Notice Paper.