Don Farrell (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Trade and Tourism) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The government continues to reiterate its view that it cannot agree with this motion. We do, however, acknowledge the interest in the chamber in continuing to reform the NDIS to get it back on track and ensure its sustainability for future generations of Australians.

On 8 February 2024, the government tabled the final report of the Independent Review into the National Disability Insurance Scheme, which was publicly released on 7 December 2023. The review delivered 26 recommendations and 139 supporting actions to respond to its terms of reference. In delivering its recommendations, the review provided exhaustive analysis and proposals to improve the operation, effectiveness and sustainability of the NDIS. The independent NDIS review panel has said that its reforms can improve the scheme and meet National Cabinet's annual growth target of no more than eight per cent growth by 1 July 2026.

The NDIS bill was the first legislative step by this government towards ensuring this annual growth target is achieved. Our government will continue to make changes to improve the NDIS, including making sure that it delivers better, more consistent and fairer decisions, that it protects the safety and upholds the rights of participants and that every dollar allocated to NDIS participants reaches them and is spent in a meaningful way that makes a difference in their lives so that people with disability can continue to live with dignity and exercise control over their future through the scheme.

In relation to the order being discussed, the government has previously outlined that we have claimed public interest immunity over the requested documents, as disclosure would prejudice relations between the Commonwealth and the states and territories. The Minister representing the Treasurer has already tabled key documents for the benefit of the Senate, in addition to the aforementioned review.

Jordon Steele-John (WA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I move:

That the Senate take note of the explanation.

Yet another sitting period goes by in which disabled people are denied transparency by this Labor government. Another week goes by in which a minister comes into the chamber and refuses to provide the public with documentation of the agreement—the secret deal—between the Commonwealth and the states and territories that is driving the devastating cuts that we are seeing to disabled peoples' supports—the supports they need to literally live.

There is absolutely no denying that these cuts are occurring. My office is inundated at the moment by families and advocates reaching out to us and by participants calling us in desperation because their vital supports have been cruelly slashed. It is absolutely unacceptable that, when there are so many corporations and billionaires getting away with paying absolutely no tax or far less tax than it would ever be reasonable for them to pay, the government comes for disabled people, their families and the supports that they need to live a good life.

Labor is very clearly content to put disabled people and our families through hell. They do not care enough to show us the financial framework that underpins the cuts that they are making. In fact, they first tried to deny that the documents, which they have now hidden for over a year, even existed. When they were forced to admit the documents existed, they continued to run an absolutely ridiculous argument that to release them would prejudice the relationship between the Commonwealth and the states and territories, as though transparency and accountability should take a back seat to whether a few ministers in government feel a bit embarrassed. It's ridiculous.

You know what? This secrecy, this lack of transparency and this failure to own up and be honest is creating an environment where the community can't even celebrate some good things when they are announced. Disabled people really need, for instance, a well-functioning healthcare system; that is vital. The government was very proud to announce a healthcare and hospitals funding package recently. Yet, if you look beneath the detail of the announcement and the highly confected media releases, what do you find? You find a Labor government which is holding above its head funding to states and territories for their hospital systems. But you only get it—oh, yes, there's a catch—if you agree, as a state or territory government, that you will join with the Labor government in the perpetuation of the complete nonsense that state and territory governments are equipped to provide alternative services to people who've been kicked off the NDIS and that the states and territories can magically set back up the services and supports that they've been systematically dismantling for over a decade because those services were meant to be provided by the NDIS.

Now, if these services and supports, whether they be in WA, New South Wales, Tasmania, Queensland or anywhere in between, were ever to exist—remember that we still do not know what a foundational support is; there is no definition and no clarity. If they were ever to be set up, it would easily take, I would say, decades to set these systems back up. Even when they are established, there is no guarantee that they will be transferable so that somebody who currently lives in New South Wales could easily move to WA or anywhere else. It's absolutely ridiculous. These cuts mean that children are going without the services and supports they need and that families are subjected to so much struggle and so much unnecessary pain, and this government can't even own it.

Hollie Hughes (NSW, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Mental Health and Suicide Prevention) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Does anyone remember the government saying, during the election campaign, that it was going to be a government all about transparency? They were very clear that they were going to be all about transparency. But what we've seen, when it comes to the NDIS, is Senator Steele-John and Senator Reynolds requesting these documents and speaking to the refusal of this government to provide these documents for almost 18 months. To Senator Steele-John's point, they denied that they existed, and now they've had to admit they exist, but they are still hiding them in another show of the lack of transparency and the opaqueness of this government.

Before the election, Mr Shorten, as the then shadow NDIS minister, claimed that the NDIS was perfectly sustainable and that there were no issues whatsoever with the NDIS. In fact, according to him, the Liberal government and Senator Reynolds, as the minister, were somehow behaving like pearl-clutching kabuki players when we were reaching out across the aisle, asking for bipartisan support and being honest and transparent about the state of the NDIS and its sustainability. What have we seen since this government has come to power? They have now recognised that the NDIS is unsustainable, that there are too many participants on the NDIS and that there has been a complete lack of management when it comes to the behaviour of some of the providers—not the participants but the providers. So the NDIS continues to descend into chaos.

There are those in the Australian community that look at the NDIS as this behemoth of spending. They think that there are too many people on it, they think that it's a rort and they think that it's being manipulated. Unfortunately, through that argument, some of the goodwill is being lost in the broader community. But, for the families of participants and for the participants themselves, who rely on the NDIS to provide supports, we know that this is one of the most important driving issues in their lives. In the midst of a cost-of-living crisis, when we know more and more people who have a disability sit at the lower end of the socioeconomic spectrum, they are being punished even further by this government with its complete uncertainty and, quite frankly, meanness when it comes to treatment of those on the NDIS.

In just a few months, participants who will no longer qualify for the NDIS are supposed to be sent over to this wonderful new world of foundational supports, and, as Senator Steele-John mentioned, we don't even know what foundational supports are. This government can't even tell us what a foundational support is. There are a lot of assumptions within the community as to what they're supposed to be, but no-one actually knows what they are. So where are these families going to go when? It's particularly impacting children. Where is a family going to go to get support when their child is no longer qualifying for the NDIS?

Among the things that were supposed to be in place when the scheme was rolled out were ILC grants. They were supposed to there to develop tier 2 supports so that community groups would be able to support disabled people in their community to more actively participate. My children are all teenagers now, but I remember going to music groups, playgroups and all these other different activities with my children when they were younger, and what these grants were supposed to do was to support these groups to further develop so that they could include children with a disability more easily. Instead, we've seen the ILC grants turning into some sort of political football and not going to the groups that require them or to the groups that have also provided advocacy within the space. In fact, in Tasmania we have seen Autism Tasmania have to close because they were refused ILC grants. I know ILC grants have not been given to Autism Awareness Australia, the leading group for parents.

What we've also seen is this complete uncertainty and kids falling through the gaps. In Victoria, there is a 20-month-old who is blind and for whom the Victorian state government was refusing to provide prosthetics beyond his first pair of them. This little boy will need prosthetics until he stops growing. This family is just one of a growing number of examples who are consistently falling through the gaps. Perhaps the Victorian by-elections will be a wake-up call, at least for their health system.

Linda Reynolds (WA, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

For 18 months, senators in this place have been coming to ask those opposite for the most basic of information on the NDIS. I heartily endorse Senator Steele-John's comments that this government, shamefully, not only have a complete lack of transparency but have basically given a one-fingered or two-fingered-salute to senators and to the over 650,000 Australians now on the NDIS.

Apart from the colossal failure of those opposite to actually deal with the problems, time and time again in this place, when I approached Bill Shorten as the minister and said, 'We have some serious structural issues with the NDIS that we need to fix, and we need to be able to control both drivers of cost: the number of people on the scheme and also the average cost per participant on the scheme,' we heard Bill Shorten say, 'There's nothing wrong with the scheme; you're just making it all up.' He comes into government and says, 'Oh, dear; I never read the budget papers or any of the reports from the NDIS, and the scheme is in trouble.' Instead of saying, 'Oops, we got it wrong,' he just doubled down. He had another review that was completely unnecessary. He said, 'We can't really do anything until after the review's finished,' and 18 months later he said, 'Well, we're not going to make any cuts to the scheme.' Well, that was just a big fat untruth. I'll go through the numbers in a second. They have been cutting on this scheme as if there were no tomorrow, indiscriminately.

What we haven't really heard—and Senator Hughes touched on it—is that foundational supports, as they're now called, are what was called tier 2 supports when the Commonwealth government went into interim intergovernmental agreements with states and territories. The states and territories were always responsible for community based support for those who were not going to be eligible for the NDIS. Don't forget that this was a scheme for Australians who had the most serious and permanent disabilities—those Australians who lived miserable, horrible lives in state and territory facilities and who were denied the most basic human respect and dignity. Those opposite now have a strategy just to get themselves through the next election. No wonder Bill Shorten scarpered off before the election and before his financial fraud was exposed.

Andrew McLachlan (SA, Deputy-President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, on a point of order?

Jenny McAllister (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Emergency Management) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'd ask Senator Reynolds to reflect on the way she just characterised the former member for Maribyrnong.

Andrew McLachlan (SA, Deputy-President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Just reflect on it. I don't think it was an adverse reflection but be measured in—

Linda Reynolds (WA, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I was mentioning him by his name. 'Former minister Shorten', then—I'll say that.

Andrew McLachlan (SA, Deputy-President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It was the 'scampering away'. But I don't think—I think that was what you were suggesting, Minister.

It's not a debate.

Jenny McAllister (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Emergency Management) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Reynolds is persistently referring to Mr Shorten incorrectly. He should be referred to as 'Mr Shorten', notwithstanding the fact that he's no longer serving.

Andrew McLachlan (SA, Deputy-President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Please take that on board, Senator Reynolds.

Linda Reynolds (WA, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Former Minister Shorten has left prematurely and left every single NDIS participant and their family with an almighty mess, which is impacting on their lives in the most profound of ways. But the biggest of so many things in the mess that he has left behind, which Labor are now scrambling to make sure doesn't come out before the election, is that they've cut $60 billion out of the scheme. They've forced tens of thousands of participants through reviews. They've delayed plans. They're still hiding budget figures. They commissioned Redbridge and spent an enormous amount of money on how to spin this through.

Let's have a look at what they're actually hiding. Total payments continue to increase due to both increased participant numbers and a higher average cost per participant—the two drivers of cost. That's despite everything they say—this mythical eight per cent, which is what is in the budget. Senator Hughes last week was talking about an $11 billion black hole. Well, I'll tell you what, when you have a look at the fiction of the NDIS figures you see it is far more than that. This is the fact: total payments continue to increase due to both cost drivers. In the first quarter it was $11.5 billion of expenditure. This total payment level is actually on track to exceed last year's expenditure on the NDIS, which has not been budgeted for in this year's budget.

So now the government are desperately talking to the states and territories: 'Can you give us a loan?' They've had 2½ years and there is no agreement with the states and territories on foundational supports. Why would there be? They vacated the field, as Senator Steele-John said, for nearly a decade. Not only are they not going to find the money but it's already a thin provider market. Where are these people going to come from?

Plan inflation also continues to rise, with the annualised inflation level at 12.8, not their mythical eight per cent. This is a fraud on people with disability and on all Australian taxpayers.

Question agreed to.