Kerrynne Liddle (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Child Protection and the Prevention of Family Violence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. Labor's hesitancy to end mandatory income management in the Northern Territory became obvious when the member for Lingiari spoke in favour of it, as she has done previously. Minister, has the government realised the benefit of mandatory income management and that it should never have promised to remove it?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank the senator for her question and I invite the senator to refer to Senator McCarthy's contribution earlier today, which went through the approach that the government is taking to closing the gap. I say to those opposite that I know that it is probably a little too hopeful in this period of the electoral cycle, but it is very apparent to me the extent to which there is much less bipartisanship around the statements today than I've seen previously.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister Wong, please resume your seat. Senator Cash?

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is a point of order in relation to relevance. The question was quite specific. It was in relation to the benefit of mandatory income management, whether or not the government had now realised that benefit and whether or not they should—it's just a point of order of relevance.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You will recall that Minister Wong referred to Senator McCarthy's answer to previous questions, which did cover off on some of those things, but I will continue listening carefully and, if the minister is not relevant, I will draw her to that point. Minister Wong.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The Albanese government is delivering a long-term plan to reform income management. First Nations people and other stakeholders have called for a measured approach to reforming income management, and decisions must be made in partnership with them. I'm advised that, over the last two years, the government has consulted with about 4½ thousand community members and 250 stakeholders across 81 communities, and communities have told us that they would prefer a longer transition period to move onto voluntary income management to ensure people are well supported to make this change.

I'm also advised that the government has been working in good faith with the Northern Territory government and that the Prime Minister has had—it might have been the minister, actually; I think this is a brief from her—productive discussions with the Chief Minister. I understand that income management has not changed in the Northern Territory since the previous government, and the same rules around income management apply in the NT as have existed since 2007.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Liddle, first supplementary?

Kerrynne Liddle (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Child Protection and the Prevention of Family Violence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Will Prime Minister Albanese allow the Northern Territory's grog ban to lapse? He was distracted by the $450 million voice referendum and, at great human, social and economic cost, ended the cashless debit card. In an interview on ABC on Friday, the Prime Minister said his commitment was to ensure everything he does makes a positive difference, but words are not actions. Will your government end income management for 27,000 Territorians, or is the Prime Minister talking from both sides of his mouth again?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator, that's an unnecessarily barbed comment on a really important issue—

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting—

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

and I will answer the issue. What I would say to you—and, if I can just clarify, I'm advised that the information I provided just now was, in fact, information from the Minister for Social Services's portfolio. I'm advised, as I said, that income management hasn't changed in the Northern Territory and the same rules currently apply as have existed since 2007. The Northern Territory government has the ability to refer adults to income management if there are child protection concerns and can refer someone to income management where there are concerns for the care, protection and welfare of the child. Importantly this could include neglect. People under the child protection measure have 70 per cent of their payments quarantined. We're working with them closely in relation to that referral process.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Liddle, second supplementary?

Kerrynne Liddle (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Child Protection and the Prevention of Family Violence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Labor MPs on the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights recommended an end to all forms of income management in 2024. Minister Rishworth's department recently completed consultations on ending mandatory income management in the Northern Territory. Yet the Prime Minister still says there are no plans to stop mandatory income management. Will your government end mandatory income management—yes or no?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I said earlier, we've indicated we are listening to communities about how income management can best work for them, and any decisions about the future of income management will be based on genuine consultation. I would have thought that, given what has been said by many—

Kerrynne Liddle (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Child Protection and the Prevention of Family Violence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Point of order: the question went to yes or no.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

And there was a preamble to the question as well, which the minister is entitled to respond to.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I'll say it again: we're committed to listening to communities on how income management can best work for them, and any—

Senator Ruston, you can't stop interjecting, can you?

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Point of order: with all due respect to the Leader of the Government in the Senate, who loves to make points of order in relation to other people's behaviour, all points should go through the chair, not directly across the chamber.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister Wong did not make a point of order. She responded to an interjection, which, as you know, if you're on your feet answering questions—

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It was directly to the senator and not through you.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Sure, I'll take that point, but it was not a point of order. I remind Senator Wong to make her comments to the chair.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It wasn't worth a point of order. It was just a comment, but—

Opposition senators interjecting—

Would you like me to keep going, President, or do they want to keep going?

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, you've got 18 seconds.

Opposition senators interjecting—

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

They don't want to hear the answer? That's fine.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator McGrath, I'm going to ask you to withdraw that comment, please.

James McGrath (Queensland, Liberal National Party, Shadow Assistant Minister to the Leader of the Opposition) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I withdraw.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you.