David Pocock (ACT, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Pursuant to the contingent notice standing in my name, I move:

That so much of the standing orders be suspended as would prevent further consideration of the bill without limitation of time.

I know it's a pain when the crossbench does this, but I think Australians probably need to know what's happening here. We have record numbers of Australians being scammed, yet we're having the Scams Prevention Framework Bill 2025 just rushed through this place. The crossbenchers haven't even had time to get amendments drafted. Is that what we want our democracy to be? I find this extraordinary.

The coalition need to have a good hard look at themselves. Senator Dean Smith, from the great state of Western Australia, engaged in the Senate inquiry in good faith. Anyone watching would have seen the probing questions he asked. The coalition put in a very good set of comments and recommendations. Then, it seems, his party said: 'Great work, Dean, but do you know what? We don't care. We don't care what the evidence says, what was tendered to the committee or what you're recommending, because we're just going to roll over. We're going to do a deal on electoral reform and we're going to ram through scams legislation.' This is scams legislation that is so undercooked!

Anyone paying attention in the Senate committee process would have heard experts and consumer groups say, 'This is legislation that is stacked in the interests of the banks.' I find it astounding that on such a big issue we have a lack of evidence based policy. We're told: 'We've got to get this legislation through. It doesn't matter that if it's not going to be effective. It doesn't matter if the codes won't come into effect for ages. It's urgent.'

To the coalition: after your additional comments in the report, it is disgraceful that you're happy to put this bill through unamended. I think it shows real disrespect to Australians. I've met so many people who have lost hundreds of dollars, thousands of dollars, tens of thousands of dollars or hundreds of thousands of dollars. Some have lost millions of dollars. And you guys are happy to just give them the middle finger and say: 'Well, here's some scams legislation. It's better than nothing.'

The Telecommunications Industry Ombudsman has called the bill in its current form 'unworkable'. The crossbench had briefings with the peak consumer groups, and they said, 'In its current form, this does not work for Australians and should not pass.' They engaged in good faith. The crossbench have tried to engage in good faith, and you have put us in a position where we can't even get our amendments drafted. The crossbench has raised concerns about drafting resources in this place many times. It doesn't seem to have improved. The poor drafters in there are working their arses off, and you won't give them extra resources.

I hope Australians see this for what it is: disrespecting our democracy by not allowing elected representatives to at least engage in a debate. We have had no second reading speeches, no time for committee process and no time to even get amendments drafted for this, and why? The codes that hold everything in this legislation haven't even been drafted. We're told that it will take a very long time to develop them.

I wasn't that surprised when Minister Jones put forward legislation that looked like it had been drafted by Anna Bligh and the Australian Banking Association. I honestly wasn't surprised. What I was surprised by was the coalition, after engaging in good faith—as I said, Senator Dean Smith does excellent work in this Senate, at estimates and in committees. But you don't care. At the end of the day, it's self-interest and vested interest. Australians deserve better. I don't understand why you're doing this.

Katy Gallagher (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

We will not be supporting the suspension motion. We allowed time for consideration of those bills in the motion today, but obviously senators were keen to debate veterans entitlements legislation, which I acknowledge a huge amount of work has gone into, and we are in the middle of that right now.

Can I just also add that the comments from Senator Pocock about the scam legislation are offensive, and there is no-one in this country who has done more to protect people from scams than Minister Jones. He has spent years on this—years and years of attending forums, consulting with people and working with stakeholders—and for you to diminish that and say that he's done this in the pursuit of self-interest is absolutely offensive. From time to time, we need to get things done in this Senate. That was how the Senate resolved on this procedural motion today. I move:

That the question be now put.

Question agreed to.

Louise Pratt (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Pocock, on a point of order?

David Pocock (ACT, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Insinuating motives—that was not why I said that.

The TEMPORARY CHAIR: The question is that the motion to suspend standing orders be agreed to.