Tony Abbott (Warringah, Liberal Party, Leader of the Opposition) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Prime Minister. I refer the Prime Minister to her earlier answers to the member for Macquarie and to me about the Malaysia people swap, and I ask: once the 800 ceiling has been exceeded, what will the government's policy be then to stop the boats?

Julia Gillard (Lalor, Australian Labor Party, Prime Minister) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

In answer to the Leader of the Opposition's question: (1) the government's policy is that we want to implement the arrangement with Malaysia, and that does require amending of the legislation, as I have already indicated to the Leader of the Opposition, and that is a decision he faces; (2) we have taken the best possible advice on structuring this arrangement and its deterrence value, and I am advised that the Secretary of the Department of Immigration and Citizenship, Mr Metcalfe, in discussing these questions with the opposition—he certainly said this to government, so this is the advice to us—said that the deterrence impact of transferring people will be very strong. So we obviously designed the Malaysia arrangement to have the maximum, strongest possible deterrence impact. So this is not about saying that this is processing of a certain number of people overseas in the way that, for example, under the Howard government a number of people were processed on Nauru. This is about people being transferred—people who are then not processed and do not come to Australia. So the deterrence effect—

Tony Abbott (Warringah, Liberal Party, Leader of the Opposition) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Speaker, I rise on a point of order. It was a fairly simple question: what happens when the 800 ceiling is breached? I think that is the question the Prime Minister should answer.

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The Leader of the Opposition will resume his seat.

Dr Mike Kelly interjecting—

The Parliamentary Secretary for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry will leave the chamber for one hour under standing order 94(a).

The member for Eden-Monaro then left the chamber.

Honourable members interjecting—

Order! Those that are here listening should behave also.

Julia Gillard (Lalor, Australian Labor Party, Prime Minister) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What I am endeavouring to explain to the Leader of the Opposition—based on the expert advice we have been given by the Secretary of the Department of Immigration and Citizenship, and what I believe the secretary actually said to the Leader of the Opposition in the briefing that he provided to the Leader of the Opposition—is that the secretary said it is up to 800 asylum seekers. Of course, our hope is that we would not need to transfer that many. Our aim is that we do not have to transfer that many, because the advice to us is that the strength of the deterrence effect is such that this will smash the people smugglers' business model.

Mr Hockey interjecting—

Harry Jenkins (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! The member for North Sydney is warned!

Julia Gillard (Lalor, Australian Labor Party, Prime Minister) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am conveying to the House expert advice we have been given which has also been available to the Leader of the Opposition. This has the maximum deterrence effects. It smashes the people smugglers' business model because it takes away from them the very product they seek to sell, which is that people will be processed and end up in Australia. Whilst the Leader of the Opposition may contest all of this—and I know that he does—that is the advice that has been provided to us, and that is the advice that we are relying on. Once again, I say to the opposition that it is open to them to say they do not want to rely on this advice. It is open to them to say that they prefer a different policy solution. It is open to them to identify that policy solution as Nauru. That is a matter for them. Then they would have to answer a series of questions about costs, what happens when it is full and what happens when the expert advice proves to be right that there is no deterrence effect and the asylum seekers are resettled here in Australia. That will be a matter for them, but the important point before this parliament is not the contest between our plan and the opposition's plan. The important point that will come before the parliament next week is having the legislative foundation stone so executive government can implement the plan that it prefers; for this government to implement Malaysia and PNG and for a future government, should one ever be elected with the policy of processing asylum seekers on Nauru, to have the opportunity to do that. That is the question that the Leader of the Opposition will need to answer. I do not ask him to endorse the government's plan. I ask him to seriously consider, in the national interest, amending the legislation as he will need to do to support the plan he says he believes in.