Stephen Smith (Perth, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the House) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The government is committed to providing regular reports and updates on Afghanistan, including and in particular to the parliament. This year I have reported to the parliament on four prior occasions, in March, May, July and October. This will be my last parliamentary report for this year.

The Prime Minister reported to the parliament earlier this week on Afghanistan, describing the day-to-day work of our men and women in uniform and our civilians and articulating Australia's future commitment to Afghanistan. I take this opportunity to provide further detail on the Australian Defence Force's (ADF) operations in Afghanistan. There have been a number of developments since my last update in October, including with respect to detainee management, the focus of my remarks to the House today.

Detainee Management

Australia takes the issue of detainee management very seriously and has a robust framework for detainee management in Afghanistan. In December last year, I announced the details of Australia's detainee management framework in Afghanistan following the Dutch withdrawal from Oruzgan Province on 1 August 2010.

In developing our detainee management framework, Australia has had two priorities in mind: first, the critical need to remove insurgents from the battlefield, where they endanger Australian, International Security Assistance Force and Afghan lives, and second, the need to ensure humane treatment of detainees, consistent with Australian values and our domestic and international legal obligations.

The detainee management framework draws on applicable international standards and advice from international humanitarian organisations. Under the framework, detainees apprehended by the Australian Defence Force, the ADF, are transferred either to Afghan custody in Tarin Kowt, or US custody at the detention facility in Parwan, or released if there is insufficient evidence to seek prosecution through the Afghan judicial system.

Arrangements are in place with both the Afghan and United States governments that include assurances on the humane treatment of detainees and access to those detainees by Australian officials and humanitarian organisations to monitor their ongoing welfare.

During my most recent visit to Oruzgan I again visited Australia's purpose-built screening facility at Multi-National Base Tarin Kowt where detainees captured by Australian forces are held for a limited time for screening. Again an opportunity was given to show representatives of the Australian media this facility, reflecting Australia's commitment to transparency with respect to these matters.

The facility is structured to ensure the humane treatment of detainees, consistent with Australian values and our domestic and international legal obligations. Detainees are able to freely practice their religion, and are provided access to exercise, adequate food and water, suitable sleeping arrangements and other amenities.

Resumption of detainee transfers

In my last statement to the parliament on 13 October, I noted that Australia had suspended the transfer of detainees to the Afghan National Directorate of Security (NDS) in Oruzgan in early July this year. The Australian government's decision to suspend detainee transfers to the NDS in Oruzgan was in response to concerns raised by the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) about the treatment of detainees in southern Afghanistan. It is, however, important to emphasise that ISAF's concerns did not relate to any allegation of detainee mistreatment against the NDS in Oruzgan where Australian Defence Force-apprehended detainees are transferred.

In my last statement to the House, I also welcomed the release of the United Nations Assistance Mission in Afghanistan (UNAMA) report into the Treatment of conflict-related detainees on 10 October this year. The report raised serious concerns about the torture and mistreatment of detainees in a number of NDS and Afghan National Police (ANP) facilities across Afghanistan but found no evidence of detainee mistreatment against the NDS in Oruzgan Province. The Afghan National Police (ANP) headquarters in Oruzgan was listed as a facility of concern. ADF-apprehended detainees are not, and have not been, transferred to that ANP facility in Oruzgan.

It is important to emphasise that UNAMA found that detainee mistreatment was neither institutional nor Afghan government policy. In addition, UNAMA's report did not raise any concerns about the NDS in Oruzgan, and specifically named this facility as one of two in Afghanistan where UNAMA had found no evidence of detainee abuse.

Despite these findings, the government wished to fully consider the report's implications and seek assurances from Afghan officials. Australia strongly supports a unified ISAF approach to concerns about detainee mistreatment. ISAF has since directed that transfer of detainees to Afghan facilities not identified by UNAMA as a facility of concern may be resumed.

Since the decision to suspend transfers was made, the Australian government has undertaken extensive consultations with the United Nations Assistance Mission to Afghanistan (UNAMA), the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), the Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission (AIHRC), ISAF partners and the Afghan government. During this process, no basis for concerns with the treatment of detainees by the NDS in Oruzgan has been raised. As a result, the government has now determined that the transfer of ADF-apprehended detainees to the NDS in Oruzgan will resume. The resumption of detainee transfers to the NDS in Oruzgan will support ADF operations and help Australian personnel and the Afghan National Security Forces remove suspected insurgents from the battlefield, enhancing the protection of ISAF and Afghan forces, as well as the security of the local population in Oruzgan. The detainee monitoring team of Australian officials will continue to work closely with Afghan authorities and security forces to provide mentoring and guidance in detainee management and handling practices. The detainee monitoring team visits detainees who are transferred from the Initial Screening Area to Afghan custody within 72 hours of transfer. The detainee monitoring team already conducts regular visits to monitor the welfare of all ADF apprehended detainees transferred to Afghan or United States custody until the point of release or sentencing. The frequency of the monitoring will temporarily increase following the resumption of transfers to assist in ensuring current standards regarding the humane treatment of detainees are maintained.

Efforts to improve detention standards within Afghan detention facilities are also being supported by ISAF at the national level. In close cooperation with the Afghan government, ISAF is undertaking remedial measures in detention facilities of concern, including facility inspection, training in human rights, formal certification of facilities and monitoring the welfare of detainees in the longer term. Australia not only takes our obligations for ADF apprehended detainees seriously but we are also committed to seeing improvements in the wider Afghan detention system. Australian personnel are involved in ISAF's broader program focused on improving standards in Afghan detention facilities.

We are also exploring the provision of training on human rights for Afghan personnel in Oruzgan. Through their participation in this ISAF-led process, Australian personnel may become aware of allegations of detainee mistreatment. Any such incidents are reported through the ISAF system. The Australian government is committed to continuing transparency with the Australian public on detainee management practices in Afghanistan. Australia will continue to work with our Afghan partners, as well as the International Committee for the Red Cross, the Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission and the United Nations Assistance Mission in Afghanistan on detention issues to promote the humane treatment of detainees.

Update on detainee allegations

Australia continues to make clear its commitment to open and transparent detainee arrangements in support of ADF operations in Afghanistan. In the period from 1 August 2010 to 18 November this year, Australian forces have apprehended 1,074 detainees. Of these, 154 have been transferred to Afghan authorities, namely, the NDS in Oruzgan, or United States authorities. The remaining detainees have been released following initial screening.

In the same period, I am advised that the ADF has captured 11 people who were subsequently released, and then recaptured. Six of the individuals in question were released as there was insufficient evidence to warrant their continued detention. Of the remaining five detainees, five out of the 11 recaptured, there was sufficient evidence to warrant their transfer and prosecution. Two were subsequently transferred to United States custody at the detention facility in Parwan, and three were transferred to Afghan custody at the NDS detention facility in Oruzgan.

I also provide an update on the number of allegations of detainee mistreatment we have received against Australian forces: in the same period 58 allegations have been made against the ADF. To date, 36 of these allegations have been fully investigated and have been found to have no substance. The remaining 22 allegations remain under review and investigation. These allegations and the outcomes of the comprehensive investigations are reported both to ISAF and relevant NGOs.

Deployment of an interrogation capability

In my March statement to parliament, I foreshadowed that the government would consider further developments to the detainee management framework, including the appropriateness of the length of detention in the Australian Initial Screening Area to enable the possible collection of further information. In my July statement, I advised that the government continued to consider this matter. Ongoing careful consideration of all aspects of this matter and preparation for the possible introduction of such a capability has occurred since then.

Today I announce that the government has authorised a team of Australian military interrogators to be deployed to Afghanistan in preparation for next year's northern summer fighting season. The interrogation of detainees is a capability used by other ISAF partners. The capacity to interrogate will allow the ADF to play a larger role in the collection of information against the insurgency in Afghanistan.

Interrogation has proven valuable in detecting and preventing insurgent activity. Australian soldiers have a strong interest in being able to contribute to building this intelligence picture. The knowledge that captured insurgents hold can lead us to the location of the improvised explosive devices and weapons caches that cause injury and death. It can also reveal details of insurgent leaders, transport routes and locations. Interrogation can assist us in obtaining the information that we need to unravel insurgent networks and prevent the harm they intend for our soldiers, our ISAF partners and the local population.

In addition to the deployment of an interrogation team, the Australian government has decided that the length of time for which detainees can be held in our Initial Screening Area may be extended beyond the current 96 hours for an additional three days, with a possible further extension of another three days. While 96 hours is appropriate for our previous role in basic screening, a longer period of time may be required for more complex questioning of detainees of interest. This approach is consistent with the timelines other ISAF partners such as the United States and the United Kingdom use for interrogation. As well as providing credible intelligence, these changes will support the successful prosecution of detainees through the Afghan judicial system. Australian forces will be better positioned to provide evidence and to determine whether an individual possesses intelligence that could assist our efforts or those of our ISAF and Afghan partners, in addition to determining whether a detainee should be released or transferred.

This possibility of a longer period in detention beyond 96 hours and interrogation will not be used for all individuals captured by the ADF. Australia will continue to use the current ISAF mandated timeframe of 96 hours, to establish whether a detainee should be released, transferred or be detained for a longer period. Only detainees who are assessed by intelligence professionals as potentially having information that would make a material difference to the safety of ISAF personnel and the local population will be held beyond 96 hours.

Interrogation is an issue that must be managed carefully and sensibly and it is important to be clear about the conduct authorised under these expanded arrangements. Australian Defence Force interrogators are highly trained and ethical professionals. Their duties in Afghanistan will be in accordance with approved techniques consistent with Australia's domestic and international legal obligations. Physical or mental mistreatment has no place in interrogation: interrogation is an extended questioning process conducted by trained professionals within strict guidelines. Such ADF trained and ethical interrogators will not mistreat a detainee. Like all members of the ADF, the interrogators are trained in and adhere to Australian law, and the Law of Armed Conflict and international human rights obligations. This change is consistent with Australia's domestic and international legal obligations. The ADF has established safeguards and oversight procedures, which the government has reviewed carefully and considers appropriate to the rigorous governance measures required. Interrogation will be subject to audio and visual recording through the CCTV system within the initial screening area, and strict approval processes with senior oversight will be followed. The government and the ADF remain steadfastly committed to ensuring that detainees apprehended by Australian forces are treated humanely and treated in a manner that is consistent with both our domestic and international legal obligations.

Together, these expanded arrangements will help ensure that Australian forces have a larger, more accurate understanding of the insurgency. Significantly, this will improve the protection afforded to our military and civilian personnel and assist the achievement of our objectives in Afghanistan. In line with the government's strong commitment to openness and transparency, I will continue to provide regular updates on Australia's detainee arrangements, including this interrogation capability.

CCTV system

In my March report to parliament, I advised that the then acting Chief of the Defence Force (CDF) had advised that some failures of the initial screening area's CCTV recording system had been identified. I advised at the time that the ADF was addressing this issue and had begun to put in place procedures to resolve the matter, including immediate action to ensure continuous footage is being recorded and archived. In my May report to parliament, I further advised that the CCTV system at the initial screening system was functioning and continuous footage was being recorded and archived. In my July report, I advised that there have been no further issues with the closed circuit television (CCTV) system at the initial screening system and that the system was functioning and continuous footage was being recorded and archived.

I am advised that there was a recent issue with the system's power supply that resulted in the loss of a small amount of footage. There were no incidents during this short period in which the system was not recording and initial screening area staff conducted visual monitoring to ensure the continued safety and wellbeing of the detainees. This issue has since been rectified and additional safeguards, including revised procedures for the operation CCTV system, have been implemented.

Other detainee m atters

In my July report I noted the investigation into allegations that the ADF initial screening area team in Afghanistan did not adhere to administrative procedures. I will advise on the outcome of this investigation in due course. Mr Deputy Speaker, I thank the House and I present a paper tabled in conjunction with my ministerial statement.

Mark Dreyfus (Isaacs, Australian Labor Party, Cabinet Secretary) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

by leave—I move:

That so much of standing and sessional orders be suspended as would prevent the member for Fadden speaking for a period not exceeding 16 minutes.

Question agreed to.

Stuart Robert (Fadden, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Defence Science, Technology and Personnel) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I rise to respond to the Minister for Defence's fifth update to the House. He said in his March update, the first of the five this year, that he would seek to make timely, relevant responses on combat operations in Afghanistan and, to his credit, he has kept his word. I note the machinations of this morning and the loss of Speaker Jenkins. Despite having been tossed out nine times in this parliament, I am sure none of which were my fault, I certainly echo the Leader of the Opposition's words that the House has wide regard and respect for Speaker Jenkins. I am sure he will be missed, certainly on the reruns of the Sunday television programs.

I rise for the fifth time this year to respond to the Minister for Defence. Last Tuesday I responded to the Prime Minister's update in respect of combat operations in Afghanistan. I thank the minister for the opportunity to respond to his comments. I note the time the minister spent with respect to transition and the way transition is going. The coalition offers wide, deep and lasting bipartisan support to combat operations in Afghanistan; the bipartisan support is not conditional, except on the national interest. Whilst bipartisan support is given freely and given widely with great trust, we do acknowledge that it is not a blank cheque. We do expect to be kept updated, both publicly through the House and privately through the statutes of the House. I acknowledge that the minister does both of those to his enduring credit.

The Lisbon treaty set the transition date for 2014, a date the coalition accepts and acknowledges. The government, to their credit, has also reinforced this by making it clear that any withdrawal from Afghanistan will be metrics-based and based on a sound judgment at a command level. We believe the government continues to hold to that account and I note the minister's comments on transition that we have now moved to a stage of mobile mentoring teams. We are moving away from an establishment of 30 footprints and forward patrol bases to manning 11 bases, and the minister hopes to have the permanent manning down to four patrol bases with the extensive use of the mobile mentoring teams to make up for the reduced footprint of Australian soldiers.

I note the minister's comments that the transition is going well. In terms of stability, economics, infrastructure and construction, things continue to improve. The Leader of the Opposition and I were at the forward patrol base in the upper reaches of the Mirabad Valley, six kilometres outside Tarin Kowt, in October 2010, when a massive firefight was underway to capture the ridgeline above the Mirabad Valley. In May 2011 I went back to that patrol base and sat down with the leaders of the community, including a number of former mujaheddin fighters, in a traditional shura for an hour and a half. The issues of security, defence and insurgency were not raised once in that hour and a half, yet six months before there was a brutal firefight on that ridgeline to capture the area. Six months later, such was the degree of security that in that one and a half hours of discussion the issues raised included: when is the road coming to the Mirabad Valley? Thank you for the mosque. When are we looking at replacement crops for poppies? How are we dealing with economic activity? When is the school replacement going in? How is the issue of markets being addressed?

There is no greater example of the transition from combat operations to economic activity than in the Musaza'i patrol base, seven kilometres outside Tarin Kowt in the Mirabad valley. Its testimony adds value and weight to the minister's words that the transition is moving sensibly and appropriately.

With respect to the minister's announcement, the coalition supports the commencement of the transfer of detainees to the Afghan National Director of Security, the NDS. It is fundamental that the NDS within Oruzgan are capable, are appropriate, have enough staff and resources and the proper processes to enable them to effectively take detainees to prosecute information available to them, to treat them humanely within the rules of armed conflict and, within a civil society, the law, and then release them or move them through to a court process. The minister has provided a range of assurances that the Afghan National Director of Security is operating within these norms. The investigation the minister alluded to has shown that in the Oruzgan facility no noncompliance was found. The coalition accepts that and supports the commencement of the transfer of detainees.

We also support the length of time to hold detainees increasing from 96 hours to 10 days which is in line with our ISAF partners. In the previous four responses I have made to the minister—in March, May, July and October—I have called consistently for a number of things to occur, including for the time to hold detainees to be widened from 96 hours to the full 10 days in line with our ISAF partners. The minister, to his credit, has agreed to that and has given the instruction for that to occur. That will give the military a whole range of options to use. It is important that in armed conflict, which is ostensibly a battle of wills, we provide our military with the full gamut of combat power and the full gamut to achieve effects on the battlefield. One of the major ways to achieve an effect on the battlefield is a full and proper prosecution of information and processing that into intelligence.

It is impossible and has been impossible to fully prosecute that battlefield effect while holding detainees for only 96 hours and, in that, only allowing a limited degree of tactical questioning. In line with that, the coalition supports the minister's moving towards setting up a full primary interrogation centre which allows the full prosecution of information from detainees. Likewise, the coalition supports the full use of our detainee facility. The Commonwealth has spent $5 million on a state-of-the-art ostensible interrogation facility, and we have not used its full gamut of capabilities for 12 months. With the announcement by the minister that a full interrogation capability will be sent to Afghanistan, it will allow us to fully prosecute that information effect on the battlefield.

I join the minister in acknowledging that some people may have concerns, especially around the term 'interrogation' and what it actually means. I note the member for Eden-Monaro is here. He was in Iraq during the Abu Graib affair and played a significant role in bringing sanity to what was otherwise an insane situation. He and I both know, having served operationally overseas, that perception can tend to be a long way away from the fact. Let me assure people that interrogation is as much an art as a science, but it is an incredibly disciplined art and a disciplined science. We are talking about a primary interrogation centre that includes full medical support, full psychological support, substantially trained interrogators and where everything is captured on CCTV. There is also full access for the Red Cross and other humanitarian organisations. I can speak with some authority on the issue of interrogation, being a trained military interrogator—probably the only one the House has had for a while, Mr Deputy Speaker Scott.

Stephen Smith (Perth, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the House) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Forever.

Stuart Robert (Fadden, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Defence Science, Technology and Personnel) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Or perhaps ever. As a trained interrogator, I know patently well what is involved in the art and science of interrogation, how we deploy it and what we do with it. I also say to Minister Smith that I have spent 24 quality hours in one of our Australian interrogation centres. It is very hard to be an interrogator unless you have undergone the process of being interrogated to know how both sides of the fence work.

With that experience from my former military days—looking across at the member for Eden-Monaro, a former colonel in the military who has great experience in this matter as well—I can say with some authority that the minister's decision to employ the full gamut of interrogation capability, based on 12 months of deliberation and making sure things will work appropriately, is sound and sensible. It will be managed and monitored. I believe the minister has deployed a one-star general to manage detainee management, so there is tremendous oversight. We will have a full range of interrogators under a suitably senior officer, all videotaped, all managed, with every word and action accountable and this will finally allow Australian forces to fully prosecute all detainees and to seek out, through tactical questioning, the information detainees may hold and the value that information may have. We will be able to determine what is more appropriate for which detainees and which should be held for longer periods of time for the full extraction of information that may be worthwhile and of value.

For those who hear the word 'interrogation' and immediately picture Abu Graib, I say with great confidence and experience that that could not be further from the truth of what interrogation capability brings to the fore. We are talking about suitably trained intelligence corps officers. As we know, the intelligence corps of the Australian Army is one of the finest and most professional corps. It will do the nation proud in its use of interrogation.

I note the minister has told of 1,074 detainees from 1 August 2010 to 18 November 2011. That is an enormous number of people captured on the battlefield or detained at checkpoints because of information that had been gathered. People were detained by special forces because they were persons of interest. This enormous number of people needs to be tactically questioned and their information, alibis, equipment and what they have on them needs to be assessed by an intelligence professional. Decisions then need to be made about what to do with them.

With that number of people coming through a detainee management system, it is crucial that we have a viable NDS which we now do as the minister has assured the House, with 154 being passed to the NDS or US forces. That still leaves over 900 people passing through the Australian system, not going to the NDS or the US forces, that the Australian system will either release or now has the opportunity to pass through to a primary interrogation centre for the further extraction of valuable information. I think we can all be assured that our ISAF partners will be incredibly pleased with the decision that has been made. Whilst we look at a number of people recaptured, that is inevitable within a theatre of combat operations. Now, hopefully, with the implementation of the PIC, we will see the incidence of recapturing and redetaining certainly reduced as we can more formally address the issue of information extraction.

I note that the minister has said that of the 30 or 40 allegations that have been fully investigated, for those who have actually made complaints within our detaining facility none have had any basis to them. I suggest with some confidence that probably none ever will. I think it is axiomatic that those detained on the battlefield—especially knowing full well that we are a First World nation and we operate within the rule of law, a nation that is accountable, and that detainee numbers will be reported to the people within parliament and that each investigation will have suitable oversight—are well aware of the First World rights that they enjoy within our First World facility, and I note that the Taliban would never afford us even a Fourth World right or, indeed any of our soldiers such rights.

Having said that, we are better than that as a nation. We are better than who they are and what they do in terms of their actions. So it is important that we continue to thoroughly investigate each allegation as it arises, noting that those to date have had no basis, and we will continue to investigate and to show the Afghan authorities, as well as the nongovernment sector within Afghanistan, that we follow complaints to the letter of the law. It is important that our soldiers, sailors and airmen also understand that we will continue to follow those processes wherever we go.

I can only assume that the minister will continue next year his tradition this year of updating the House at least every quarter—I see a nod from the minister—to ensure that the parliament is fully abreast of where things are going in Afghanistan. The next year will be a decisive year in terms of combat operations. This year, over the last winter, the Taliban have not regained any of the losses through the last fighting season leading into the next. They have not regained any of the initiatives. As the 2nd Battalion, Royal Australian Regiment, prepares from MTF-3 to transition across to MTF-4 based on the 8th and 9th Battalion over the Christmas period, it is my expectation from looking at what our soldiers, sailors and airmen have done to date, that that initiative will not be resumed by the Taliban. Next year we will see a transitioning down from more patrol bases to mobile mentoring teams. It will see the further destruction of the intelligence, communications and command elements of the Taliban, and further economic development within the community.

Let us not underestimate the value of economic activity or the work that the Provincial Reconstruction Team is doing. When the sealed road from Chora to Tarin Kowt went in, the price of palm oil in Chora, that used to be seven times that in Tarin Kowt, dropped to only twice that price. That type of productivity improvement—using the language we would use in parliament—is fundamental to the lives of people. And whilst many of the people will question the legitimacy of the government of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan, Jawara, it is incredibly difficult to say that the ISAF forces are not delivering value when suddenly the price of palm oil has dropped from seven times down to two. It is a tangible reminder of the value of what we are doing in theatre.

I thank the minister again for his update to the House. He knows that the government enjoys full coalition support in the prosecution of combat operations. The coalition supports the minister's announcements on the commencement of the transfer of detainees to NDS, the ability to hold from 96 hours to 10 days. We support the implementation of the PIC and the full use of the detaining facility. I thank the minister for his update to the House.