House debates

Thursday, 12 February 2015

Motions

Martin Place: Siege

12:28 pm

Photo of Ed HusicEd Husic (Chifley, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary to the Shadow Treasurer) Share this | | Hansard source

Earlier this year I visited the National September 11 Memorial and Museum in Manhattan. The Americans can be proud, and in fact the world can be proud, that they have created there a noble tribute to those who lost their lives in those terrible events of September 11. It is a most powerful tribute. In many cases the most powerful elements of that tribute are very personal: from a watch or a wedding ring right through to ticket stubs—the mementos of people who had gone to work that day expecting to go home at the end of the day and who were felled in the most cruel circumstances. There were harrowing images, as well, of metal hurtling into metal and silhouettes launching themselves from buildings to a cruel end. I visited there in the aftermath of the terrible events of Martin Place.

These separate events—September 11, December 15—may prompt the question of what was less cruel. Was it more humane to confront the sudden loss experienced on September 11 as opposed to the torture inflicted through the passage of time on those held captive in Martin Place on 15 December in an event that cost the lives of two people: a mother, Katrina Dawson; and a son, Tori Johnson? The truth is both situations were marked by their intense cruelty, and both are condemned with equal vigour by us all. Both prompt us to attend to a vital civic purpose.

Much has been interpreted into the actions of the person who carried out the end crime of 15 December. I cannot enter into the mind—and nor do I seek to—of someone who is prepared to abandon their own humanity by denying the continued humanity of others. His actions must be condemned, they are condemned and they will stand condemned through the passage of time.

Some say that the aim of the terrorist is to distort the way we relate to each other through fear and suspicion, and I say that this is simply an ancillary objective. The principal objective is subjugation—that our way of life be subjugated and that it submit to another where we have no say and where someone else has ultimate and complete dictation of the order of things. But this system of governing the affairs of people has confronted and fallen to the purity and power of the greatest of our attributes: the attribute of individual free will. Nazism fell, fascism fell, communism fell and, wherever these systems resort to bloody means of maintaining themselves, they have failed because they cannot resist free will.

I was reminded of this when I saw my friend the member for Kooyong visit the harrowing grounds of Auschwitz 70 years after its liberation and I read the story of how that instance of history affected his family in a very personal way. It affected the lives of six million Jews of the nine million that had lived in Europe at that time. But, ultimately, through all that pain free will prevailed as it had to, as it should and as it will in the face of terrorism whether it occur on our shores or whether it occur elsewhere.

My friend the member for Kooyong will know it is not often that I quote Winston Churchill! But there can be no truer words expressed than when Churchill said:

Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.

We may have our criticisms of the way we run ourselves, but we are all keen to preserve and enhance our way of life. We are also asking of our fellow citizens—and I make this important point, reflect on it and recognise its weight—to undertake a significant test: we are asking them to defy a natural human reaction in the wake of 15 December. It is a reaction guided by fear and provoked by the events of Martin Place. We cannot deny the anger that existed, because it would be like denying our own humanity.

In a day and age where faith is subjected to questioning—and in a modern, vibrant democracy it should be questioned and it should stay that way and be respected—I think faith does have some answers and can guide us in a very positive way. Despite differing faiths, we share this in common, be it your faith or mine: the one thing we share in common about faith is that it always urges us to be better than what we are. In fact, it says to us all that we should not succumb to the easy, indolent reaction of emotion, that we should be better than who we are. We should avoid the rush to hate, the retreat to defensiveness, the withdrawal from others and the false comfort that comes from an aggressive counter. We are being tested, and the question is: will we succumb?

In actual fact, that test is being played out as I speak in another part of the world where a few days ago, in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, three young Muslims lost their lives. Some are urging us, rightly, not to rush to judgement, but the three young lives of these Muslim Americans who were killed execution style are prompting an outpouring of reaction and also prompting further thought. It was further thought that was carried in The Independent this week by Sabbiyah Pervez, who wrote in response some words that I think should guide and that go to the heart of the test that I mentioned a few moments ago. She said:

We have been collectively blamed—

referring to Muslim Americans—

scapegoated and attacked for not doing enough. In doing so we have lost sight of the simple fact that—

and I, importantly, reflect on this—

hate begets hate. The more you paint a community as foreign, as a threat, as outsiders, you risk dehumanising them. And this has happened to such an extent that when they are murdered, there is no desire to give them the same sort of attention we would otherwise give all victims of terror.

Very important words. We are being tested, but I say that, in my heart, the response I felt when I saw the way Sydney responded shows we have responded rightly to that test. Sydneysiders showed the breadth and the depth of their inner strength in responding to this act of terror, and I pay my respects to those families but also honour Sydneysiders for the outpouring that we witnessed straight after that.

In fact, I was honoured to be among that outpouring, and I thank the Leader of the Opposition and his wife, Chloe, for allowing me to attend on that day. On that day there was a moment where I have to say it seemed like grief would crush the chest as I looked at that blanket of flowers. I felt the pain and hurt that accompanied those bouquets as they were laid on the concrete of Martin Place. But then a surge of admiration overtook that and replaced that void, because I recognised what we were witnessing and what people were doing there. They were coming together and saying, 'We will be better. We will not allow terror to dictate the way we live our lives, and we will unite for something that is uniquely better.' It was a symbol of collectivism and unity that was truly special. As an individual MP, and for colleagues across party lines, we basically want to preserve and enhance the gift we have right here.

In closing, I want to extend on behalf of the more than 100,000 residents of Chifley the deepest condolences on the loss that was experienced by the Dawson and Johnson families, and the strongest expression of love and support to those who are forced to endure the unimaginable and the completely unacceptable. I also express, as my colleagues in this place have, an admiration for the New South Wales Police and other security agencies who worked in very trying circumstances on that day.

Out of this, in reflecting Churchill's words, let us rededicate ourselves to join together regardless of politics to perfectly defend the imperfect and to preserve and enhance what we have, because it is truly unique and it is something that at its heart, with free will, is worth defending.

12:39 pm

Photo of Philip RuddockPhilip Ruddock (Berowra, Liberal Party) Share this | | Hansard source

I wish to be associated with the motion proposed by the Prime Minister and supported by the Leader of the Opposition. I commend my colleague the member for Chifley for his remarks. I also send my personal condolences to the family, friends and colleagues of Katrina Dawson. Katrina was a mother of three, a wife, a daughter, a sister, a friend. She was a member of my own profession, the law. She was attending, innocently, a cafe in Sydney known to me. I also send my condolences to Tori Johnson, remembered as a son and a loving partner and friend to all of those who knew him. They are the personal tragedies. For my own part these horrendous acts of terror which unfolded in the centre of the city that I love moved me enormously. As we watched the events unfold all of us sought a peaceful resolution and that the victims would remain unharmed. We saw images of our great Sydney beamed around the world. It was terror on our shores as we had never seen before. How we handled it was very significant.

I am very proud of Australia. We draw together people from around the world. We have a higher proportion of population overseas born than all but two other countries. We show that people of different faiths, different races, different religions, can live together side by side. What I was particularly proud of on that day was that we did not allow our unity to be destroyed by the act of one man. It is very important, whether he was colluding with others, to understand that it does not change the essential character of Australia, which I think is an example to the rest of the world, and which I believe very strongly.

Martin Place is a very special centre to us all. My wife was in the cafe in question, the Lindt Cafe, 24 hours before this tragedy. We were going to church at St James in King Street. I was parking the car, I might say, at the St Mary's Cathedral car park. Nevertheless I took the car and she went to the cafe and bought the cappuccino that I like and the light latte that she likes—a mere 24 hours before this tragedy. None of us thought that something like this would happen.

I often walk through our great city, and I saw the flowers that were laid by so many. For me, the way in which my neighbours, my friends, the people I knew, responded so generously and wanted to have their condolences reflected through flowers that were laid was something unique and very special. I say all that because I am very proud of my city, of what we are and of what we have been able to achieve. We all relate to those who were tragically wounded by these events.

I have spoken for half my time and I want to spend a few moments reflecting on what we should learn. Our unity was important. The Leader of the Opposition noted the people of Sydney who invited others of different faiths to ride with them to demonstrate our unity. But, if we do not learn the lesson of what terrorism is about, while we might handle it, we will not prevent it.

I am meant to be at another meeting at the moment—a meeting of the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security. Some of the measures that we have had to look at are for how we secure our cities and protect our people. I said only a week or so ago in one of these discussions in another debate we are having about capital punishment that I have a strong commitment to the right to life. I think we have a responsibility to protect people's lives as parliamentarians. Sometimes that means that other rights might have to take second place. I hear some people arguing, in relation to laws that we might have to look at that could help us deal with these situations, that there might be a greater right to privacy to prevent agencies being able to find out some of these things that might be planned and plotted. I tell you: I give privacy second place to the right to life.

I think we have to look very closely, as the inquiries go forward, at the lessons to be learnt. I read that metadata may have been of some value in the inquiries that were being undertaken in relation to this event. If that be the case, I think it is important that we all know and take on board that lesson. I do not want to see an event like this take place in any of our cities again, and I hope that every effort will be taken to learn the lessons and to look quietly—through the coroner's process and through the secretary's inquiry—at the way in which we might have been able to find out in advance what was planned. We can do that. We have seen other events planned in our cities by groups from time to time and, when we have been able to get earlier notice and to understand, I suspect many lives have been saved.

There are two parts to this resolution: the lessons learned have to be before us all, but we should not forget the tragedy that has befallen the Dawson and Johnson families—their suffering. I hope their suffering is not in vain.

12:48 pm

Photo of Brett WhiteleyBrett Whiteley (Braddon, Liberal Party) Share this | | Hansard source

As I have said before in this House, in the midst of the argy-bargy there are moments in which we come together on the common floor of this parliament to express deep sympathies to those that have been affected by particular events. Today, of course, we all stand to speak to the loss of both life and for many—for some time to come, I suspect—hope, as they were caught up in the Martin Place siege.

What tremendous contributions we have just heard in this place over the last few moments, let alone in the hours that were dedicated to this debate yesterday. I pay tribute to the contribution of Ed a moment ago—I will use that name; I know, but I am going to say 'Ed' in this particular case—and, of course, to the Father of the House, who stood to his feet. He is father for many reasons, but to hear his contribution was very special also.

I love getting out of this place, because this is a world of its own in here, and it is lovely to be home. I cannot wait to go home after tonight. I am sure we are all the same, because that is where our friends, families and constituents are, that is where our life is, and that is where the world happens for us. It was not that long ago—just on 15 December—that, finally getting back into my electorate, I was thoroughly enjoying it. I had had a coffee, ironically, and had just headed up the street to do a street walk, as good members of parliament do, dropping into some of the local businesses—'How's life?' and so on and so forth. It was a beautiful morning. People were happy. It was a great day.

My phone rang. It was my 20-year-old daughter, who does not live in the electorate but who rang and said: 'Dad, are you listening to the radio? Are you watching TV?' I said: 'No, I'm out on the streets, I've got a coffee and I'm walking. What's going on?' She, with great despair, told me of the events unfolding in the centre of the great city of Sydney. Whilst it was early and it was speculation, there was something in my gut that told me I did not need to speculate. There was a sinking feeling in my heart that that event that all of us had hoped and prayed would never occur in our backyard, as we watched events unfold across the world over the last few years, had in fact turned up and arrived on our doorstep.

This great country, isolated from so much and pure in so many senses—not all, but in many senses—had had a sense of being immune. We think we are immune, and we watch on our televisions and see the impact on the lives of many in other places of the world, never thinking for one moment that we would be faced with such an event. We never think it could happen to us. It is like that in life, isn't it? We do not think it will ever happen to us, and when it does our whole world is changed and turned upside down. Whoever thought that the two words 'lone wolf' would mean anything other than a potential character in a children's storybook? But over the last little while they have taken on a whole meaning of their own, haven't they. In a completely different way from how we felt or how we strategically and defensively planned after the events of September 11, when all our attention was on whether a plane could do damage in our cities and so on and so forth, we now, as a global community, have to face this incredible challenge of dealing with people with radical views that are simply based in an evil intent—all on their own—to make a statement to the world. How do you defend yourself against that?

A moment ago the Father of the House talked about the benefits of the intelligence that we gather, which is true. The way we pass laws in this place very much assists us in being better at heading off potential attacks on our livelihoods, as we saw in only the last few days. We can do all that we can, and we are; and there is more to be done, more to be said and, no doubt, more laws to be passed. We will do our very, very best. But the reality we have to face is that it is really difficult. When someone has evil in their heart and their intentions are to make a statement to the world, based on flawed fundamentalist views, it is really difficult to stop. Today I can only thank God that, in the midst of the great loss of the Martin Place siege and the devastation for the families that no longer live and breathe next to their loved ones, it was not worse. That is of little consolation to those who have lost loved ones.

December 15 was the day that terrorism very much reared its ugly head on our magnificent soil with a brutality, albeit displayed by one man, that we had not seen prior. On behalf of the electorate of Braddon, which I have the privilege to represent, I want to thank the police services of New South Wales and all the other first responders for the way in which they responded to this unexpected barbaric act, and to send our thoughts and prayers to the victims of the siege and their families. Not only were some lives lost, but many were wounded both in body and in spirit. It was moving for me, after the Prime Minister had spoken and moved this motion the other day, to move out into the foyer here and see the families who were in the gallery to listen to the words conveyed by the parliament. I saw the deep anguish, loss and heartbreak of many of these people exposed to me when the elevator doors opened and they made their way down to the ground floor lobby.

Braddon might be a fair distance from Sydney but, as Australians on the little island of Tasmania, we were hoping and praying for an outcome that did not result in any loss of life. That was not to be the case. Sadly, the siege did not end as well as we were all hoping and praying. My prayers now go out to the family, friends and colleagues of Tori Johnson and Katrina Dawson. Tori Johnson was obviously a tremendous fellow—loved by all and respected by his workmates. The loss of his life is tragic. Katrina Dawson was obviously a great wife, mother, friend and colleague. The fact that innocent people got caught up in an act of hate, and the impact of those 16 hours, will be felt throughout the victims' and their families' entire lives.

There are inquiries underway; it is best that we stay away from that today and just hope that whatever we find will be of use in the future. The person who carried out this attack, and those in Australia who support his actions, have no place in this country. This act of brutality against innocent individuals was an attack of brutality on our nation. The way we respond to this act of brutality to ensure it does not happen again will, no doubt, be the subject of much debate; but we must love our brothers and sisters, we must resist the temptation for evil and we must commit our lives to peace. As I finish, the apostle, Paul, wrote these great words:

If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men.

12:58 pm

Photo of John AlexanderJohn Alexander (Bennelong, Liberal Party) Share this | | Hansard source

Of all the speeches that I have given in this place, this is one of the most difficult. I commend all those who have spoken to this point, and I commend the unity that we share in the truly important things. To witness the revolting blight of terrorism make its way to the centre of our nation's biggest city was something we all hoped and prayed would never happen. To have ordinary people—not law enforcement officers or soldiers in some foreign conflict, but real, everyday Australians—targeted so randomly by such barbarism is not something we equate with the life we hold so sacred in this great, free and easygoing country where our greatest conflicts are resolved on sports fields, in pools and on courts. To lose those two beautiful, innocent souls—Katrina Dawson and Tori Johnson—who were just enjoying another day, one as a cafe manager and the other as a customer, is truly confronting.

Any parent will know the feeling of absolute revulsion at the thought of those forced to bury their child. The thoughts, prayers and wishes of everyone in this place go out to those families. But we also cannot forget the other victims. We may have been cheering at our televisions as we saw the footage of hostages escaping and running to freedom, but these are victims too, who will be scarred for life from this horrible ordeal.

An old friend of mine was one of those victims. John O'Brien is quite a legend in the Australian tennis community. He remains one of our best players in the world in the over-80 division. I caught up with John earlier this week when he came to Canberra to witness the Prime Minister move this motion. John was the man in the blue jacket who ran for his life. When I caught up with him this week in Canberra, I pointed out that he was again wearing that blue jacket. He confided in me that this was his only jacket. John's relief after his flight to freedom to the safe arms of those charged with that great responsibility was immediately consumed by his concern for those still being held. This then was replaced with sorrow that will endure for the fate of Katrina and Tori. This gentleman, incapable of harm or unfairness, a product of the best that sport can produce—not trophies, but the disposition of a personal integrity—has now, through this tragic event, been enhanced with even a greater level of compassion.

Like people across Sydney and the nation, the people of Bennelong poured their hearts out following this horrific terrorist act. This was exemplified by the thousands of floral arrangements left in Martin Place. Just as we had put our bats a few weeks earlier for Philip Hughes, this was our Australian way of standing united in the face of a threat that is incompatible with our values, our way of life. Whether it is a lone wolf, a disenchanted youth or just an evil madman, these people deserve not to be named nor remembered. He was not a martyr. He was not a hero. He was nothing, and we are not afraid. The event should not have been a source for drama to be covered continuously in prime time and on the front pages of our newspapers, which only served to magnify, to make worse the attempt to terrorise.

And we now stand strong in the face of today's announcement that two men were arrested in Sydney yesterday amid allegations they were about to set off on their own senseless act of terrorism. These unimaginable events serve only to bring our Australian community closer together as we celebrate our values of freedom, equality and the rule of law. We unite in strength, as we know that these values will always prove right and always prove stronger against any fundamentalist threat.

On behalf of the people of Bennelong, I mourn with the rest of the nation at our loss and stand resolute that we will not change. I commend the motion to the House.

1:03 pm

Photo of Greg HuntGreg Hunt (Flinders, Liberal Party, Minister for the Environment) Share this | | Hansard source

It is a deep an onerous task for each of us who is speaking on the Martin Place siege. It was an example of a terrible incident on Australian soil with dramatic human consequences. It was also, at the same time, an example of the finest courage from those hostages who ultimately gave their lives to protect and save others, of courage from the police and of an extraordinary upwelling of community unity in the hours and days which followed this act of barbarity. Let me make a few observations, firstly, in relation to those who were lost; secondly, in relation to the events that followed the siege; and thirdly, in relation to the steps forward.

Australia lost two fine young Australians. Katrina Dawson was a very successful Sydney barrister, a mother of three young children whose life was lost in the siege while protecting another. She showed incredible courage which ultimately may have cost her her life. That is as great a gift as anybody can ever give. Tori Johnson, the manager of the café, was also involved in acts of great heroism. For his family, that is an extraordinary loss. To see a young man cut down is a terrible tragedy. But there is a level of grandeur in the heroism to which people can rise in the most extreme times, which was exemplified by the way in which both Katrina and Tori conducted themselves. They gave of themselves in a way which is beyond imagination and almost beyond words in commendation.

There were three other hostages out of the total of 18 who were taken, which comprised eight staff and 10 customers, that were injured: Marcia Mikhael, who was shot in the leg; 75-year-old Robyn Hope, who was shot in the shoulder; and 52-year-old Louisa Hope, the daughter of Robyn, who was shot in the foot. For each of them, I give them our hope for a rapid recovery as free of emotional trauma as is possible under the circumstances. I know that the New South Wales government is providing all possible support, but, most importantly, their friends and families have rallied in the best possible way.

Following the siege and the barbaric approach from Man Haron Monis, who was the hostage taker, Australians should be proud of their police, proud of their authorities and perhaps most proud of the response of the Sydney community and of the broader Australian community.

In terms of the Sydney community, the upwelling of spontaneous support that turned Martin Place into a centre of memory, a centre of community and a centre of gathering to acknowledge those who were lost, and to have done it in such a gentle and caring way, speaks volumes about the true Australian character. This was Australia at its most compassionate, most generous and most spontaneous. There was no organisation, there was no government edict; it was the community responding as one immediately in the best example of a response to the worst of events.

Similarly, I am one who believes the #illridewithyou response to ensure that the Islamic community was not targeted was a deeply positive thing. It represented, in my view, in my judgement, a breadth and depth of Australian character of which we should be proud. Having said that, I am even more pleased that there was no backlash in any significant, meaningful way whatsoever. It was a defence against a possible action, but I am pleased to say there was, thankfully, no underlying response in Australia, that the nature of Australians was to recognise that this was the act of a deluded and deranged gunman who was responding to a global call for jihad. So those were the events that followed.

But let me put this in the long-term context now. We are, as I said in this House in 2003, in 2004, in 2005, engaged in a generation long struggle against a jihadist, nihilist, violent, extremist sliver. This jihadist, nihilist, violent, extremist sliver seeks to establish a caliphate. It seeks to destroy those of the Islamic faith who do not adhere to their exceptionalism as well as those of all other faiths. It is of course worth noting that the primary target of Daesh, or ISIS, has been those of the Islamic faith who do not abide by a totalitarian abusive rule that is utterly contemptuous of women, that is utterly contemptuous of human rights, that delights in bloodshed, that delights in a mediaeval violence and torture that is simply extraordinary and inhuman and inhumane.

Their goal, along with al-Qaeda, is to seek to establish a foothold in Pakistan, in Egypt, in Saudi Arabia, in Indonesia to create the basis for a caliphate. We must work with those countries and resist at all opportunities. Their broader goal is to extend this caliphate into all countries. They will fail, but we must not ever resile from the fact that this will be a difficult challenge for using both soft power and hard power. Soft power is the power of ideas and resilience and an absolute commitment that we will not tolerate the acts of violence and intimidation that we see. The hard power is to say that where there are deep threats to our citizens or to citizens abroad we cannot be passive. I am one who believes we do need to take steps. We have seen in the last 48 hours actions to prevent another possible tragedy. I commend the security agencies and the police for their work on that front. At the end of the day, we are engaged in a generation long battle—as I, along with many others, identified in this place a decade ago. That battle has not gone away. The call by Daesh, or ISIS, for lone wolf gunmen or other forms of activity has been heard around the world. Some have tried to take it on. In France we saw the atrocity associated with the Charlie Hebdo magazine. We will resist these acts of extremism wherever they are. We will not tolerate a philosophy that is about human destruction, the glorification of violence, the attempt to destroy the freedom of our society and the attempt to simply take over entire tracts of country, whether it is in Syria or Iraq. At the end of the day, we remember Katrina Dawson and Tori Johnson. We acknowledge their extraordinary heroism and courage and we give whatever comfort we can at this distance to their families.

1:13 pm

Photo of Craig KellyCraig Kelly (Hughes, Liberal Party) Share this | | Hansard source

I would like to associate myself with many of the wonderful speeches from both sides of the chamber made during this motion. It has been a parliament at its finest.

About 12 months ago I was in Martin Place on a Sunday. There was a rally for the Coptic community of Sydney. Their rally was against the violence and terrorism that their people were facing in Egypt. When that rally was completed on that Sunday, I went looking for a cup of coffee in Martin Place. One of the few places that was open was the Lindt cafe in Martin Place. I remember sitting down and having a coffee on that Sunday, reflecting on the demonstration and the speeches that were being made and how lucky we were in Australia that we had been immune to the violence and terrorism of other nations. And when I heard about the events that were going on in Martin Place, I could recall myself being back in that cafe about 12 months earlier. I could visualise the doors, the wall where the chocolates were lined up, the counter in the far back right-hand corner and the chairs where I had sat, but I could not visualise the terror that those being held hostage must have been going through.

By coincidence, about one month before I pasted a link on my Facebook page to the Lindt chocolate's Christmas commercial from 2012 titled 'A Christmas of love'. For those who have not seen it, it is set to the tune of Silent Night and shows the Lindt bear and a young girl. It is truly one of the greatest pieces of advertising I have ever seen. That is why I posted it on my Facebook page before the siege. You could not get a greater contrast than between the Lindt commercial called 'A Christmas of love' and those unspeakable evil events. You could not get a greater contrast with anything or anywhere.

Many other speakers have reflected on the I'll Ride with You Campaign. No doubt that was very well meaning but ultimately my Sydney, my city, proved it was unnecessary. Some people like to portray or think that Sydney is an intolerant city. On the day after the siege Sydney proved it was one of the most tolerant cities in the world. People of all faiths, religions and backgrounds came together with the floral tribute in the city and the many wonderful scenes we saw after.

I would also like to associate myself with the comments of the father of the House in this debate, the member for Berowra. In this time we should also reflect on what lessons can be learnt. The lesson that can be learnt is that when we talk about human rights we must talk about the rights of the community to safety. We should not be afraid to say that in this circumstance our bail laws failed. We should also consider whether we should ban the Daesh or ISIL flag. The libertarian in me has great difficulty in banning a symbol. If we think back to during World War II it would have been quite acceptable to ban the Nazi flag. I think in these times when we have Australian servicemen in battle against Daesh and when we see this group engaging in unspeakable evil, such as the beheading of people and burning of people alive, we could look at making the possession of that flag a criminal offence.

Finally, this parliament sends a message to the grieving family and friends of Katrina Dawson and Tori Johnson, sends a message to the victims of the siege who will for many years carry the emotional and physical scars of this event and sends a message to the brave police who stormed the cafe. We say that our parliament is with you and our Australian community is with you. We will stand with you.

Debate adjourned.