Joe Ludwig (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Hansard source

Thank you. I have tried a couple of times to get into the debate. The government has had a very careful look at this. The conscientious objection certificate provisions exempt union entry to certain premises for the purpose of holding discussions with employees where no more than 20 employees work on the premises, where none of the employees are members of the union and where the employer of all of the employees holds a conscientious objection certificate. The Greens have moved an amendment removing ‘conscientious objection certificate’ from this section. So it is not at large. I am at a point of not quite going to what the opposition are saying. Conscientious objection can continue to exist under industrial organisations legislation. The government will support this amendment moved by the Greens, removing the conscientious objection certificate from this bill in the area that it subsists in.

There does not appear to be any compelling reason why an employer’s religious doctrine or belief should prevent a union from being able to talk to individuals whom that employer employs. Whether or not those employees wish to talk to the union, of course, should be a matter for them. On this point I note that the bill maintains the current protections that unions may only talk to employees who want to take part in those discussions. I would also note the limited effect of the existing exemption. It only applies in relation to entry for discussion purposes in circumstances where the employer employs fewer than 20 employees and none of those employees are union members. In addition, a conscientious objection certificate can only be endorsed where the employer is a natural person. This is because only a natural person is capable of having a conscientious objection based on religious beliefs. It means, when you look at it, that even where the person who owns or runs the company has a conscientious objection they will be unable to have it endorsed if the business is incorporated. Given the hour, I just wanted to be succinct so that the chamber is aware, should we go to a vote this evening, of what the government’s position is on this.